The Official Thread: Live audio feeds, scanners, and... wait for it.. ENCRYPTION!

[KK4JUG]

History proves my point; governments are dangerous and must be vigilantly watched by the people governed.

Our founding fathers said the same thing and, for good reason, it never goes away.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Do some research on hybrid algorithm and what is actually needed to brute force AES256. The key space is sufficient that it is resistant to all current known attacks to it. No ‘hobbiest’, now or in the near/far future is going to compromise/break it. The algorithm was peer reviewed by some of the best in the business before it was released.


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There is some speculation that AES encryption as implemented in P25 is compromised.

There are components of the clear text which are predictable and repeatable within the encrypted stream.

A similar problem exists with analog DES used in SECURENET.

The CVSD used in SECURENET outputs a string of 1010101010's during silence. P25 similary has some data and vocoder bits that are known.

AES is also suspected to have an NSA created back door. It would not be the first time the NSA has corrupted an encryption system.

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[jparks29]

AES is also suspected to have an NSA created back door. It would not be the first time the NSA has corrupted an encryption system.

This.

Look at the approval process, who approved it, how much they 'push' for it to become a standard.... Then look and see what they say about using it internally...

Hint : It's not approved for use in securing TS material.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

This.

Look at the approval process, who approved it, how much they 'push' for it to become a standard.... Then look and see what they say about using it internally...

Hint : It's not approved for use in securing TS material.

Exactly! And don't forget "open source" stuff, "peer reviewed" by "Volunteers", those peers could be anyone, they might even work for a 3 letter agency.

 

[krokus]

If scanner feeds were/are the reason for encryption would a very easy fix be to add a 5-10 minute delay to all broadcasts? Then if u are using it to commit a crime u will be well behind the response. Any sensitive info is usually sent over MDC or landlines.



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This has been argued many times, but the administration here refuses.

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[krokus]

By that logic, you have the right to tap government phone lines as well. How do you think that would work out for you?

Phone lines are private property, and specifically protected by laws. Of course, that is all but moot, these days.

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[RFI-EMI-GUY]

This has been argued many times, but the administration here refuses.

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I dont know why that solution is resisted. Most folks that see an emergency vehicle show up would be happy to hear the dispatch played on Broadcastify at that delayed moment. As it is, I look out, see them roll up, and when I turn the scanner on, nothing more is said. It would protect Public Safety from public interfering with tactical operations and it would stimulate sales for scanners for folks like the media who want real time.

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[kayn1n32008]

RR/Broadcastify/Lindsay won’t even accept the idea that agencies simply do not want their comms streamed. Even crappy ADP encryption keeps people from streaming.




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[com501]

Now that AES is offered at no charge on some platforms, consider streaming a lost cause fairly soon.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Now that AES is offered at no charge on some platforms, consider streaming a lost cause fairly soon.

I think a lot of agencies have felt that going digital was all they needed. That may change.
And with Infinite Key Retention having an expensive KMF is no longer needed. They can just gather up the radios and load them. There may be some cost for adding encryption to CIU's but that will be all that is needed.

 

[James_Bond_007]

i haven't red through all 51 pages to see if anybody had the same thought but perhaps when the scanner manufacturing market starts to feel the financial pinch from slump scanner sales we will see a lobbying effort by the major scanner manufacturers to change the laws regarding encryption. maybe getting laws past requiring dispatch channels remain in the clear. in reality the only things that need encrypting are TAC channels and that can be automatic with modern radios where encryption on or off can be specified on a channel by channel basis. i'm sure it wouldn't happen scanner manufacturers would just move on to some other more lucrative market and gradually stop manufacturing new scanner or just stop all together if it gets to the point where there is nothing to scan anymore.

 

[jasonhouk]

This is what seems to be RR/Broadcastify's official response to live/delayed streaming & encryption “It’s providing more an entertainment type perspective than the ability to gain an advantage over law enforcement,” said Mr. Blanton.

Full article here: https://www.wsj.com/articles/want-t...00?redirect=amp#click=https://t.co/jWFxBbwdLb

FYI you don't have to subscribe to read the full article just click on it load that page then click the back button to read full article. Worked on Chrome mobile.

Houk

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[soberbyker]

~snip~

FYI you don't have to subscribe to read the full article just click on it load that page then click the back button to read full article. Worked on Chrome mobile.

Houk

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Didn't work for me, no 'back' page to load, sign in or no go. Chrome desktop.

 

[dbs1023]

Those tac channels will be used as dispatch at that point. I've already seen it happen.

i haven't red through all 51 pages to see if anybody had the same thought but perhaps when the scanner manufacturing market starts to feel the financial pinch from slump scanner sales we will see a lobbying effort by the major scanner manufacturers to change the laws regarding encryption. maybe getting laws past requiring dispatch channels remain in the clear. in reality the only things that need encrypting are TAC channels and that can be automatic with modern radios where encryption on or off can be specified on a channel by channel basis. i'm sure it wouldn't happen scanner manufacturers would just move on to some other more lucrative market and gradually stop manufacturing new scanner or just stop all together if it gets to the point where there is nothing to scan anymore.

 

[IAmSixNine]

Wonder if you can put some sort of geo fence on it. For example, if your on a cell phone in texas then block out texas from being access or streamed while the rest of the country is available on your phone.
Crude analogy but it sort of makes my point.

This would make the local dearments happy knowing that they cant be heard by local criminals.
It would also force the locals to buy scanners and actually learn about the scanning hobby a lot more instead of relying on apps and being lazy.
This also would allow a breaking incident accessible to everybody across the country to monitor.

I also prefer to have dispatch in the clear with the option for tac and other channels be encrypted.

 

[dbs1023]

The way to keep the hobby alive is to not allow for live streaming of any pd channels they all should be delayed at least 30 minutes. The founders of the live feed will only allow for the actual pd to delay the feed. They want this so that in the future they can start charging a subscription fee and the department's will probably get some money thrown at them to provide a delayed feed.

I wish people that are providing live pd feeds would realise how they are possibly contributing to killing the hobby and pull live pd feeds until the founders of the service wake up and allow users to delay feeds.

Yes some criminals may have scanners but they are few and far between. The live feed on cell phone is way easier for them to use. A majority of encryption is because people can listen live from any device.



QUOTE=IAmSixNine;2932860]Wonder if you can put some sort of geo fence on it. For example, if your on a cell phone in texas then block out texas from being access or streamed while the rest of the country is available on your phone.
Crude analogy but it sort of makes my point.

This would make the local dearments happy knowing that they cant be heard by local criminals.
It would also force the locals to buy scanners and actually learn about the scanning hobby a lot more instead of relying on apps and being lazy.
This also would allow a breaking incident accessible to everybody across the country to monitor.

I also prefer to have dispatch in the clear with the option for tac and other channels be encrypted.[/QUOTE]

 

[WX4JCW]

It’s hilarious that these individuals in public safety come in and try to justify shutting out the public,
It’s pretty common knowledge that the decision to encrypt is a political one, take Orange County Florida, former chief Demmings and her husband the Sheriff are well known liberals, Las Vegas is another example of an agency that was embarrassed, Orange County, CA yet another, the list goes on, it’s a political screw you to it’s citizens


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Jason WX4JCW
XPR7550 - SDS100

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

It’s hilarious that these individuals in public safety come in and try to justify shutting out the public,
It’s pretty common knowledge that the decision to encrypt is a political one, take Orange County Florida, former chief Demmings and her husband the Sheriff are well known liberals, Las Vegas is another example of an agency that was embarrassed, Orange County, CA yet another, the list goes on, it’s a political screw you to it’s citizens


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Jason WX4JCW
XPR7550 - SDS100

Please educate me. How is public safety encryption a "liberal political agenda"? As an example Scott Pruitt and his efforts to conceal all of his activities while EPA director using a "cone of silence" phone booth, destroying public records, hiring firms to sweep for bugs, installing biometric locks on his office, TactiCool pants. Are you telling me Scott Pruitt is a "damn liberal"?

 

[WX4JCW]

Nope I’m just pointing out examples, take it however you wish


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Jason WX4JCW
XPR7550 - SDS100

 

[seth21w]

People get on facebook and spread the news of what they hear on there scanner app not knowing anything of the hobby aspect of scanning. Its my opinion that the streaming service should be completely shut down, before streaming does away with our hobby all together. If you want to listen get into the hobby and buy a scanner and learn the rules. People now days and social media are insane!