The Official Thread: Live audio feeds, scanners, and... wait for it.. ENCRYPTION!

[MTS2000des]

So in this same respect you can just hop in any police car or fire engine and drive off as your tax dollars pay for it and it is yours to use.. It dont work like that

Or walk into a judges' chambers and take a dump in his/her toilet or roam freely through all parts of a government building. It doesn't work that way.

 

[EAFrizzle]

Y'all them same people that won't let me have a P25 Baofeng. 🤪

 

[W8KIC]

"I agree with you…..as it applies to a private entity! That’s THEIR intellectual property (IP) and they’re entitled to that protection. However, the infrastructure in this particular case is one in which the taxpayer is footing the bill for so it’s a little difficult for you to make your case using that same criteria. "

So in this same respect you can just hop in any police car or fire engine and drive off as your tax dollars pay for it and it is yours to use.. It dont work like that

The absurdity of your statement isn't even worthy of a response, although for your satisfaction, I'll provide you with one. Hoping into a police cruiser or a fire engine and driving off because I just happen to be a taxpayer and are therefore owed access to it is a lousy analogy and so far over the top. If I'm sitting at home listening to a dispatch channel, I'm in no way presenting myself as an obstacle in the same way I would as a taxpaying citizen, who somehow believes I have a right to ride along anytime I feel like doing so with officers Reed and Malloy! Again, I'm talking about listening to transmissions that are on a 20-30 minute delay, NOT LIVE! And no, I DON'T have any regard for those fools who try to show up at a call for service, BEFORE law enforcement actually arrives! They should be prosecuted as they're clearly in the way. But just out of curiosity, do you support a special carve-out for members of the media, who I guarantee will use the same argument that others on this forum have made about having access (i.e. First Amendment) to first responder radio transmissions and if so, why?

 

[kc2asb]

(snip) Hell, I’d be plenty satisfied if the dispatch channels were made available to the general public on a 20-30 minute delay, (i.e Chicago PD) IF that’s the only option available. When a law enforcement agency announces that they’re about to serve a warrant in short order, then obviously it shouldn’t be done in real time on a dispatch channel, UNLESS a 20-30 minute delay policy is already in place. Cheap downloadable scanner apps have (predictably) come back to bite us in the ass. That horse has already left the barn and there’s no putting the genie back in the bottle. Call it a compromise (i.e. “give and take”) and one in which both sides can easily live with, albeit some minor teeth grinding!

I agree, a dispatch-only feed on a delay is a reasonable compromise. In addition to Chicago and Baltimore, Boston PD provided the streams on only a 5 minute delay. These are the models other departments should follow.

Also agree with you about the apps. While portable scanners have been around for decades, the scanner apps can turn any phone into a portable scanner and were a game changer. All of a sudden, it was not just hobbyists and the media listening with specialized radio equipment. The damage has been done, as you said.

 

[chrismol1]

I always wondered if the streams originally had a few minute delays. I wonder how much that would have gone to greasing the wheels of harmony. Look at the depts at least willing to provide a feed at all with a delay, BPD 5 minute, etc. If streams had already had a few min delay, what do you think they would have done today, assuming the majority of this was always about streaming apps much more than someone with a real scanner, they probably would or wouldn't care at all. encrypt away

Also, I assume a lot can do with control, has BPD or others pulled their feed when they desired?

 

[kc2asb]

I always wondered if the streams originally had a few minute delays. I wonder how much that would have gone to greasing the wheels of harmony. Look at the depts at least willing to provide a feed at all with a delay, BPD 5 minute, etc. If streams had already had a few min delay, what do you think they would have done today, assuming the majority of this was always about streaming apps much more than someone with a real scanner, they probably would or wouldn't care at all. encrypt away

The protests five years ago which featured monitoring/jamming of law enforcement frequencies certainly played a role in departments going encrypted. Also, as previously mentioned in this thread, DOJ requirements for protecting PII/CJI are another factor. It's difficult to say whether a several-minute delay applied to all online streams/apps would have made a difference

Also, I assume a lot can do with control, has BPD or others pulled their feed when they desired?

I believe BPD, Chicago, etc. can shut the feeds down whenever needed.

 

[drdispatch]

With CAD, you don't put specific things, just the basics. The nitty gritty goes elsewhere.

An agency that does that shouldn't have spent the money on a CAD system then, because they're not using it to even close to its full potential. Their dispatchers might as well just get the address and chief complaint, write it on a run card, and just send 'em. They'll figure it out when they get there.
My agency *required* that we obtain all possible information on suspects and callers, including DOB's - Once that was input to CAD, they were automatically run through LEIN/NCIC. All of that info was then a permanent part of that CAD incident. If there were warrants, officer safety cautions, etc. that was relayed to the responding officers (on the main dispatch channel for expediency), as well as it appearing on their MDC screens.

 

[mmckenna]

With CAD, you don't put specific things, just the basics. The nitty gritty goes elsewhere.

That may be what your agency does, and that's cool. But it can vary.

CAD systems can really vary. Some are closely tied in with the records system.

But the real "nitty gritty" usually isn't on the radio, so kind of a moot point when it comes to this discussion. Anything that is protected shouldn't be in the clear, on radio or on a public CAD feed.

 

[WX4JCW]

i mean at this point the agencies and system admins have made their point clear, what i like seeing now and thought i would never say it are these auditors irritating the crap out of the agencies, i hope we see that expand 100 or 1000 fold at this point, want to encrypt, cool but you are going to have a camera on you 24/7 within legal means, and i really really hate that its come to this

 

[WX4JCW]

An agency that does that shouldn't have spent the money on a CAD system then, because they're not using it to even close to its full potential. Their dispatchers might as well just get the address and chief complaint, write it on a run card, and just send 'em. They'll figure it out when they get there.
My agency *required* that we obtain all possible information on suspects and callers, including DOB's - Once that was input to CAD, they were automatically run through LEIN/NCIC. All of that info was then a permanent part of that CAD incident. If there were warrants, officer safety cautions, etc. that was relayed to the responding officers (on the main dispatch channel for expediency), as well as it appearing on their MDC screens.

i don't know what cad they are using, but on our cad we did an excruciating amount of typing during each incident, EVERYTHING radio transmission and call taking had to be thoroughly documented, we could send and receive messages through cad to the units MDT as well, but any alarm was fully documented from start to finish

 

[WX4JCW]

That may be what your agency does, and that's cool. But it can vary.

CAD systems can really vary. Some are closely tied in with the records system.

But the real "nitty gritty" usually isn't on the radio, so kind of a moot point when it comes to this discussion. Anything that is protected shouldn't be in the clear, on radio or on a public CAD feed.

for once i agree with you

 

[drdispatch]

i don't know what cad they are using, but on our cad we did an excruciating amount of typing during each incident, EVERYTHING radio transmission and call taking had to be thoroughly documented, we could send and receive messages through cad to the units MDT as well, but any alarm was fully documented from start to finish

Typing radio traffic into CAD doesn't make much sense. That's what logging recorders are for.

 

[INDY72]

Typing radio traffic into CAD doesn't make much sense. That's what logging recorders are for.

There are some agencies that use the CAD/MDT for 99% of all activity, and rarely use the radios at all. Also some agencies have the MDT/CAD set up for one button responses. 10-08 is single key, 10-17, 10-04 etc... Just incident reports require a lot of typing. And now with the bar code system in use on DL/ID in a lot of places, you don't even need to type in the numbers. Swipe and you get the entire ID, Addy, NCIC, III, etc.