brucewarming
Member
That could get confusing, more than one tower to follow. I have had affilations off tower 106.
Bruce N. Mountian tower (107) Martinsburg WV Berkeley Co.
Bruce N. Mountian tower (107) Martinsburg WV Berkeley Co.
WV Interoperability System
- Thread starter wm8s
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I got a few more TG numbers to share: 8021 is encrypted, and 1199 (plain mode but could not tell who was using it).
On Thursday evening, on TG 1105, an EMT was asked to read something, so she read a few sentences from the book she was reading. It was "A Virgin Lover" but after she told the title she did not continue.
She talked about a call she had just ran, and the person on the other end told her go to TG 1115. She referenced Baker Heights twice (in the 3rd person), so I am unsure if 1115 will be the Baker Heights talk around channel.
The person on the other end bragged that the system will have 95% coverage. He also said that new pagers will be coming. I think that may put an end to most of the radio transmissions (at least fire/rescue) on conventional scanners. (IE: about the only thing one will hear on non digital scanners is the primary channels, such as the TRS in the cities.)
I have only heard the "beta testing" from FD users from Berkeley County, so I wonder if the various counties will take turns in trying out the new system.
And here is the big news, according to the exchange on 1115 Thursday evening, they hope to have the system ready in March or April.
Steve
On Thursday evening, on TG 1105, an EMT was asked to read something, so she read a few sentences from the book she was reading. It was "A Virgin Lover" but after she told the title she did not continue.
She talked about a call she had just ran, and the person on the other end told her go to TG 1115. She referenced Baker Heights twice (in the 3rd person), so I am unsure if 1115 will be the Baker Heights talk around channel.
The person on the other end bragged that the system will have 95% coverage. He also said that new pagers will be coming. I think that may put an end to most of the radio transmissions (at least fire/rescue) on conventional scanners. (IE: about the only thing one will hear on non digital scanners is the primary channels, such as the TRS in the cities.)
I have only heard the "beta testing" from FD users from Berkeley County, so I wonder if the various counties will take turns in trying out the new system.
And here is the big news, according to the exchange on 1115 Thursday evening, they hope to have the system ready in March or April.
Steve
brucewarming
Member
01199 (HAIL TG) Keep an ear out, there coming to it fairly fast. 08001 and 08021 both have had encryption on them. 01115,Talk around, but also heard the guy say "PRIVATE TG. I heard same book story as you, and music, kids and wife, Think no one can hear them. OH ya, I think that 95% coverage in the min. thats acceptable for some sort of rule.
Bruce------------ N. Mountian tower 107 Martinsburg, Berkeley Co. WV.
Bruce------------ N. Mountian tower 107 Martinsburg, Berkeley Co. WV.
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On Friday evening, I heard a consveration between I believe someone in OEM and a fire chief. The fire chief was saying that they would want encryption most or all of the time on the 4 fire tac channels. If that is the case, it would be unique on any TRS I've listened too. Loudoun County VA encrypts the investigator's, Fire marshall, the CERT talkgroups. In Fauquier County VA, some information is encrpted when needed. But in looking over data in other TRS, most radio traffic was either in analog or digital format.
I know some firefighters who listen to thier scanner and listen to the fire scene & decide whether they should report to either the scene or station.
And if it's to deter the scanner buff's, most will not indulge on a $500 scanner. Those that have the $500 invested in the scanner might just pay another $35 to 50 for the descrambler if most of the radio traffic was encrypted.
Steve
I know some firefighters who listen to thier scanner and listen to the fire scene & decide whether they should report to either the scene or station.
And if it's to deter the scanner buff's, most will not indulge on a $500 scanner. Those that have the $500 invested in the scanner might just pay another $35 to 50 for the descrambler if most of the radio traffic was encrypted.
Steve
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FPO703
Active Member
smwincva said:
There's no such thing as a descrambler for encryption. Where did you hear that? Even if there were, it would not be that inexpensive.
Well I've seen in mentioned before (here and other places) that it was easy. I even went looking out of curosity and saw this... http://store.yahoo.com/electronic-kits/speecscramde.html
Would a device like this would not de-encypt such radio traffic?
As I said in my previous post, I know a few talkgroups are encypted for security, and others are as needed. But in searching for TRS to program, I never saw any fire tac TG's encrypted. The only system that has total encyption _all the time_ is the Frederick (city) MD police.
And if it costs so much to de-encrypt, does it cost more to encrypt, (such as more radio equipment).
Another part of the consveration was on budgets. The one said he was way over budget and the other at budget. The fire chief (I believe) was talking mainly about fuel costs and the number of units sent on an incident.
I certainly hope Berkeley doesn't go mainly encypted. If it does it will hurt firefighters without the new radios as much as the few scanner buffs with trunk tracker radios.
Steve
Would a device like this would not de-encypt such radio traffic?
As I said in my previous post, I know a few talkgroups are encypted for security, and others are as needed. But in searching for TRS to program, I never saw any fire tac TG's encrypted. The only system that has total encyption _all the time_ is the Frederick (city) MD police.
And if it costs so much to de-encrypt, does it cost more to encrypt, (such as more radio equipment).
Another part of the consveration was on budgets. The one said he was way over budget and the other at budget. The fire chief (I believe) was talking mainly about fuel costs and the number of units sent on an incident.
I certainly hope Berkeley doesn't go mainly encypted. If it does it will hurt firefighters without the new radios as much as the few scanner buffs with trunk tracker radios.
Steve
No
You need to have some sort of concept about DES/AES encryption. You will not be able to decrypt those at all. These are government level encryption schemes. Our agency is going on this system as well and plan to use encryption on some of the channels.
You need to have some sort of concept about DES/AES encryption. You will not be able to decrypt those at all. These are government level encryption schemes. Our agency is going on this system as well and plan to use encryption on some of the channels.
smwincva said:
that unit only does freq. inversion. older cordless phones used that method. you can "decode" those on a scanner/receiver that has SSB without the "descrambler". basically it takes the high freq. of the signal (voice) and reverses it with the lower freq. and making the lows high. that unit is actually sold by Ramsey Electronics.
as for NEVER being able to decode AES and DES encryption, I don't buy it. AES (at least for wireless networking) has been cracked.
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Oh well, we will see what happens. The part of the conversation that talked about the _possible_ encyrption lasted only a few minutes. It was to be brought up in a meeting between the "beta users" and Motorola Monday.
It referenced to those in "Scanner World" what got the 'wrong message' in Upshur County a few weeks ago. In all fairness though, the 'wrong message' came from the mine rescue teams shuttling the information to the surface. The family members awaiting word in the mine office leaked the news out and within minutes the rest of the world knew (wrongly) of what they thought it was good news.
I don't think those listening to the scanner that night in Upshur County had more of a jump on the 'good' news, or the grim news for that matter, because it all played out in real time on live national tv.
Steve
It referenced to those in "Scanner World" what got the 'wrong message' in Upshur County a few weeks ago. In all fairness though, the 'wrong message' came from the mine rescue teams shuttling the information to the surface. The family members awaiting word in the mine office leaked the news out and within minutes the rest of the world knew (wrongly) of what they thought it was good news.
I don't think those listening to the scanner that night in Upshur County had more of a jump on the 'good' news, or the grim news for that matter, because it all played out in real time on live national tv.
Steve
brucewarming
Member
Med channels, I have heard that they also plan on having TG's for med channels 1-10, I for one will be happy with that, I think? - I live in northern WV and pick up med transmitions from south central PA (Chambersburg) and others, but bad reception! I don't much care for bad reception, who does? Hoping for a more regional TG's on them, so I can lock out the others.
In this last week I have heard on the WV inter op's that the fire dept's have the radios only for testing till Mon. 30th. They will then have more meetings on what changes would be welcome. I can see theres going to be a long learning curve for the operators. Some of the problems I hear being said, are batterys, even though they say the digital should last longer than the old radios, they seem to run low unexpected. Then setting are a problem, they call on the wrong (TG's) channels and have to ask the person replying what (TG) there on! Another problem is going back in service, which (TG) do they use. If there on Fire TAC they will have to remember to go back on Fire dispatch. Zones knob not set on correct zone, being on scan, and which TG's are programed in scan and some radios not having those TG's in some radios. I guess some of these problems will be corrected by when it's all said and done and all radios in each dept has the same setting. No reason to be scanning other zones out of your region. Voice reconition may be a problem, digital changes your voice enough to make that hard. They are going to also be good at knowing how to revert back to the old anolog channels if and when the digital fails. Having those channels also programed in or having old radios charged and handy. One more new item with these radio's is "Time out" which is programable to time of transmition, now at around 45 seconds it will cut out and they have to (assumed) re push the talk buttion.
I wonder if theres fire, and police, techs watching the forum to see whats being figured out by the scanner people? On some of the other forums theres talk of why the pubic service should feel that the scanning pubic should not be informed. Well now with the need to pay $500 for a scanner, that should cull out the all but the few scanner nuts. I find being informed a good thing, I don't plan on tackling any bank robbers, but it's nice to know how to stay out of their way. some where, some time the scanner just may save my life. sorry for the ramble!
In this last week I have heard on the WV inter op's that the fire dept's have the radios only for testing till Mon. 30th. They will then have more meetings on what changes would be welcome. I can see theres going to be a long learning curve for the operators. Some of the problems I hear being said, are batterys, even though they say the digital should last longer than the old radios, they seem to run low unexpected. Then setting are a problem, they call on the wrong (TG's) channels and have to ask the person replying what (TG) there on! Another problem is going back in service, which (TG) do they use. If there on Fire TAC they will have to remember to go back on Fire dispatch. Zones knob not set on correct zone, being on scan, and which TG's are programed in scan and some radios not having those TG's in some radios. I guess some of these problems will be corrected by when it's all said and done and all radios in each dept has the same setting. No reason to be scanning other zones out of your region. Voice reconition may be a problem, digital changes your voice enough to make that hard. They are going to also be good at knowing how to revert back to the old anolog channels if and when the digital fails. Having those channels also programed in or having old radios charged and handy. One more new item with these radio's is "Time out" which is programable to time of transmition, now at around 45 seconds it will cut out and they have to (assumed) re push the talk buttion.
I wonder if theres fire, and police, techs watching the forum to see whats being figured out by the scanner people? On some of the other forums theres talk of why the pubic service should feel that the scanning pubic should not be informed. Well now with the need to pay $500 for a scanner, that should cull out the all but the few scanner nuts. I find being informed a good thing, I don't plan on tackling any bank robbers, but it's nice to know how to stay out of their way. some where, some time the scanner just may save my life. sorry for the ramble!
I know about 8 counties will eventually use the Martinsburg tower, but right now only 4 freqs are in database. I figure 4 would be good number for Berkeley only, but I wondered if it would be enough when others get online. On Sunday, I heard the beta users saying a few more more freqs would likely be needed.
In talking of reception, a 5 watt portable (in a moving vehicle) was reaching the system from the Berkeley Springs area. They aknowledeged a dead spot in the Sleepy Creek area, and several in the valleys of Morgan County. They were discussing the possibilty of adding a another antenna for Morgan Co.
On reception, one of them talking today said the system could be heard in Rockville MD, Carlisle PA & Roanoke VA. (I'm not sure if the were referring to the Martinsburg site or the entire system.)
Back one last time to the conversation I heard Friday. They were talking that with new pagers may come new (analog) freqs for those new pagers. That's because (in the one guy's words) that retransmission from digital to low band does not work well.
They were hinting about keeping initial size ups on the analog freqs (on the pager freq) and the moving to to the tac channel (which would keep those in 'scanner world' from getting the 'message wrong'. I wonder if they meant simily going to a digital TG. That alone would leave the majority of scanner listerners out of tune. (In searching the database of the biggest cities I could not find any evidence of encrypted fire tac TGs. That included NYC & Washington DC).
Perhaps a scenerio that would happen is to simulcast the fire & EMS dispatch onto a new analog freq that all could listen. Incidents of significant size would then be switched to the tac TG.
One area that has does this is Fauquier County VA. It simulcasts channels 11 A & B from the TRS onto 494.4375. That site has 5 or 6 towers (that also serves the TRS). The A channels is to drop the tones, and B is used for mark enroute or for minor wrecks and fires, & most medical calls. However, when the 911 dispatcher senses the call will be major, or other incidents are ongoing on 11B, they switch the units to a tac channel at the onset.
Hey Bruce, can you really tell distortion in the voices? For a digital TRS, they seem pretty clear. When I started listening to Fauquier & Loudoun counties several months ago, that was a weird experience. That took some time to get use to. Of all the TRS I listen to, the WV OIS is by far the best (quality wise).
Steve
In talking of reception, a 5 watt portable (in a moving vehicle) was reaching the system from the Berkeley Springs area. They aknowledeged a dead spot in the Sleepy Creek area, and several in the valleys of Morgan County. They were discussing the possibilty of adding a another antenna for Morgan Co.
On reception, one of them talking today said the system could be heard in Rockville MD, Carlisle PA & Roanoke VA. (I'm not sure if the were referring to the Martinsburg site or the entire system.)
Back one last time to the conversation I heard Friday. They were talking that with new pagers may come new (analog) freqs for those new pagers. That's because (in the one guy's words) that retransmission from digital to low band does not work well.
They were hinting about keeping initial size ups on the analog freqs (on the pager freq) and the moving to to the tac channel (which would keep those in 'scanner world' from getting the 'message wrong'. I wonder if they meant simily going to a digital TG. That alone would leave the majority of scanner listerners out of tune. (In searching the database of the biggest cities I could not find any evidence of encrypted fire tac TGs. That included NYC & Washington DC).
Perhaps a scenerio that would happen is to simulcast the fire & EMS dispatch onto a new analog freq that all could listen. Incidents of significant size would then be switched to the tac TG.
One area that has does this is Fauquier County VA. It simulcasts channels 11 A & B from the TRS onto 494.4375. That site has 5 or 6 towers (that also serves the TRS). The A channels is to drop the tones, and B is used for mark enroute or for minor wrecks and fires, & most medical calls. However, when the 911 dispatcher senses the call will be major, or other incidents are ongoing on 11B, they switch the units to a tac channel at the onset.
Hey Bruce, can you really tell distortion in the voices? For a digital TRS, they seem pretty clear. When I started listening to Fauquier & Loudoun counties several months ago, that was a weird experience. That took some time to get use to. Of all the TRS I listen to, the WV OIS is by far the best (quality wise).
Steve
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Hi Folks,
Was traveling through the Mountaineer State yesterday and at approx 11:40 am I heard a couple of guys talking (I believe it was a talkgroup in the 900 range) about having a problem with an "idle" handheld unassociating itself from the system and would not re-associate.
I was monitoring the Charleston site at the time. They were speculating that it would require a flash update on the portables to fix the problem but they were not sure. They were expecting a Motorola engineer later yesterday to work with them on the issue.
Did anyone else hear that conversation?
One referenced himself as EMS-1 and I did not hear a unit id/callsign for the other one.
73
de
chris
kq4z
Was traveling through the Mountaineer State yesterday and at approx 11:40 am I heard a couple of guys talking (I believe it was a talkgroup in the 900 range) about having a problem with an "idle" handheld unassociating itself from the system and would not re-associate.
I was monitoring the Charleston site at the time. They were speculating that it would require a flash update on the portables to fix the problem but they were not sure. They were expecting a Motorola engineer later yesterday to work with them on the issue.
Did anyone else hear that conversation?
One referenced himself as EMS-1 and I did not hear a unit id/callsign for the other one.
73
de
chris
kq4z
Tg 00903
2-2-06
1245 hours.
A tech and state police 1102 are talking about how the portables will not "search" for the trunk system when you come back to the "system" from out of the area.
State Police 1102 was commenting that they will not issue a purchase order to buy equipment until that problem is fixed.....
They also talked about some audio issues and how "Other" counties want to get on the system fast.
Carl in Hagerstown...
2-2-06
1245 hours.
A tech and state police 1102 are talking about how the portables will not "search" for the trunk system when you come back to the "system" from out of the area.
State Police 1102 was commenting that they will not issue a purchase order to buy equipment until that problem is fixed.....
They also talked about some audio issues and how "Other" counties want to get on the system fast.
Carl in Hagerstown...
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Hi Carl/Spanner,
That was the T/G I copied my information on too (00903).
Thanks~
73
de
chris
kq4z
That was the T/G I copied my information on too (00903).
Thanks~
73
de
chris
kq4z
brucewarming
Member
You guys are doing good! keeping up with the information. Yep I heard that the purchases will be held up till the fixs/bugs are taken care of. When they asked how long that would take, answer was right away, but then said realistic,"next" week, so thats quick. Also heard today that they were towing something up north mountian (25 tons) to the tower, they gave measurments 10x20?. My thinking would be a remote station and generator backup.
Something that I heard today that I didn't know was the radio's they have been testing with are just testing radio's, the county has yet to buy them. The moneys there and they want to buy NOW, just after the bugs are fixed!
Bruce---------North Mountian tower (107) Berkeley Co. Martinsburg
Something that I heard today that I didn't know was the radio's they have been testing with are just testing radio's, the county has yet to buy them. The moneys there and they want to buy NOW, just after the bugs are fixed!
Bruce---------North Mountian tower (107) Berkeley Co. Martinsburg
Tg01101
Talk on this talk group, 2-3-06 1219 hours of Route 11 bridge closing for construction, and talk of the housing area being built in the McCoys Ferry area.
Talking about hydrants, water supply and residentual sprinklers.
I think, and Brucewarming can verify, but this must be the Emergency Services talkgroup.
The main person was requesting company 20, and another company that I missed the number, to check up for the bridge announcement.
Carl in Hagerstown...
Talk on this talk group, 2-3-06 1219 hours of Route 11 bridge closing for construction, and talk of the housing area being built in the McCoys Ferry area.
Talking about hydrants, water supply and residentual sprinklers.
I think, and Brucewarming can verify, but this must be the Emergency Services talkgroup.
The main person was requesting company 20, and another company that I missed the number, to check up for the bridge announcement.
Carl in Hagerstown...
smwincva said:
not Bruce, but I will answer the question about the audio. YES...I just bought my first digital scanner and listening to Loudoun and Fairfax counties as well as this system I noticed the audio was just "weird" but very clear. it took a little bit but I don't notice it anymore. it reminded me of the first time I got a digital cell phone.
mike_s104 said:
I wanted to make a correction. AES has not been broken and right now is considered unbreakable by the US G'ovt.
brucewarming
Member
Some of the people on the radios also mention the warble/ underwater sound of digital. Seems to happen when they move around to fast. The real test is going to be when all HE11 breaks loose and there shouting and running! Even a string between two cans will transmit fine if you keep the string tight!
Heard a couple of minutes of traffic on TG 125 today. It was a man and a woman discussing the man pulling out the gun at Hardee's in Clarksburg today. Also, I've been hearing a good bit of traffic on Region 1 Med. Talk group 903.
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