2016 F150 Auto Start/Stop and scanner rebooting

[mavrickma]

OK, that's helpful.

I understand this is a new truck. However, it's not uncommon to get a bad battery. I've had it happen on a brand new car. Get the dealer to check it out. If it's weak, it'll do this.

Another good idea would be to go through and check all the connections. Pay close attention to where you are picking up your ground. Make sure it's making good contact with bare metal.
Check your battery post connections. Corrosion, oxidation, battery connection sealers, etc. can cause issues. There should also be a heavy cable running from the negative terminal, through a current flow sensor and to the vehicle body. Make sure both sides of that are clean, tight and making a good connection. A quick hit with a wire brush should clean up the connections. Even if they look clean, clean them again.

With a #4 coming directly off the battery you should be OK. It really sounds like either the battery is faulty or there is a bad connection somewhere. Adding big enough capacitors might help, but all you are doing is hiding the issue, not really fixing it.

Ok, so you recommend running a dedicated ground cable as well? Chassis ground that I'm currently using could be the issue? Would there be a way to test this before I purchase 50ft of 4awg black wire and spend the time running it?

Its going in for an oil change next week, so I'll have them check the battery. I also have a buddy that works for AAA, so I can have him test as well.

All connections are good, clean crimps through butt connectors and spade terminals. I'm using new 18awg wire from the fuse block to the device.

Also, yes, same behavior exists when starting engine with the key. So it acts the same whether I start the engine with the key or the engine starts via the anti-idle system.

Thanks everybody for the replies. Really appreciate it!

 

[ofd8001]

I think the culprit is the new-fangled engine auto stop/start feature (for fuel economy), which turns the engine off in some situations (stopping at traffic light).

The engine re-starting drags down voltage and the scanner is senstive enough to cycle down. Other electronics may not be as sensitive. Voltage drop will be present regardless if the scanner is powered via direct battery connection or other circuitry.

In reading some other forums and information, there is a way of disabling the auto stop/start for the present - see: F-150 Auto-Start-Stop Information - Ford F150 Forum. The trade-off is fuel economy.

Uniden may want to keep this predicament in mind. It looks like auto stop/start is going to be more prevalent eventually. Perhaps they can figure out a way of lowering that voltage drop trigger point.

 

[mmckenna]

Ok, so you recommend running a dedicated ground cable as well? Chassis ground that I'm currently using could be the issue? Would there be a way to test this before I purchase 50ft of 4awg black wire and spend the time running it?

No, I think if you have a good body ground you're OK. You don't need a separate #4 ground. If the factory connection from the negative battery post to the body/frame is good, then that should be sufficient, unless you are really pulling a lot of power off the connection. Doesn't sound like this is your problem.

Its going in for an oil change next week, so I'll have them check the battery. I also have a buddy that works for AAA, so I can have him test as well.

Certainly wouldn't hurt to ask. May not be the issue, but there's an easy way to find out.

All connections are good, clean crimps through butt connectors and spade terminals. I'm using new 18awg wire from the fuse block to the device.

How long is the 18 gauge wire run?

Also, yes, same behavior exists when starting engine with the key. So it acts the same whether I start the engine with the key or the engine starts via the anti-idle system.

Thanks everybody for the replies. Really appreciate it!

OK, and remind me here:
Is the relay that controls the power to the scanner cycling on/off when this happens, or is it just the direct power feed that's impacted?

 

[mavrickma]

18awg is probably 10 feet or so - from the rear of the cab to the front and then into the center console. This run includes the factory power cable for the scanner.

The relay does not cycle. I have a Uniden CB running off the same relay/power feed and it stays on. Only the scanner is impacted.

 

[mmckenna]

CB and scanner on the same 18ga wire?

 

[mavrickma]

Yessir. And it's either 16 or 18. I can't remember which.

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

 

[Voyager]

I would just install a Gel Cell and run the scanner off that. Connect a diode to the original source to charge the Gel Cell. Either that or disable the start/stop control.

 

[mavrickma]

Gel Cell?

 

[Voyager]

Battery.

https://www.google.com/search?q=gel+cell&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

 

[mmckenna]

Yessir. And it's either 16 or 18. I can't remember which.

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

Probably OK, but I'd either run something bigger, or split it up into two separate feeds. Not likely the core issue, though.

When the voltage drops, which will happen when the engine starts, the amperage needed by the radios will increase. Unlikely you are drawing enough to overload an 18ga wire, but it's kind of small. The size of the wire and the length will result in a certain amount of voltage drop. If you are already getting a voltage drop when the engine starts, you might be dropping below what the scanner will handle.
I'd still have them check your battery, but I'd try a bigger wire to feed your radios. Could be a combination of the two.

 

[ResQguy]

A lot of overthinking the problem here.
OP, how would you feel about auto-start and timed off after engine shutdown? All of our radios are controlled via a Havis Chargeguard, using just standard 18AWG wiring. Super easy to install. http://www.havis.com/data/3-Power Management/Chargeguard/CG-0006-IS-K.pdf

 

[mavrickma]

A lot of overthinking the problem here.
OP, how would you feel about auto-start and timed off after engine shutdown? All of our radios are controlled via a Havis Chargeguard, using just standard 18AWG wiring. Super easy to install. http://www.havis.com/data/3-Power Management/Chargeguard/CG-0006-IS-K.pdf

I have thought about that, but I'm not sure it will solve the problem. I'm trying to stop the scanner from rebooting during an engine start. Does the charge-guard do that in your experience?

In my truck, the engine stops and starts frequently due to the anti-idle system that it employs at stop lights. This is where my issue occurs.

 

[chief21]

Lots of good ideas offered here. But if nothing else works, you could consider a "battery booster" device. These devices provide a constant voltage to your radio even when the primary source drops below required levels.

Here is one example that can handle higher-amp loads but there may be smaller, less expensive devices available.

MFJ Enterprises Inc.

By the way, have you been able to test the voltage levels at the battery with a voltmeter to see how much the voltage actually drops during engine start?

John AC4JK

 

[ResQguy]

I have thought about that, but I'm not sure it will solve the problem. I'm trying to stop the scanner from rebooting during an engine start. Does the charge-guard do that in your experience?

In my truck, the engine stops and starts frequently due to the anti-idle system that it employs at stop lights. This is where my issue occurs.

You say you have it connected thru a relay, your problem is likely the voltage drop on the trigger wire not the supply. This not only uses a trigger, but only shuts off after a predetermined time after certain conditions are met (voltage/alternator operation/time delay). We use them on hundreds of apparatus with few problems. They are even installed on specific "anti-idle" vehicles.

 

[JStemann]

When I first installed my 536 in my truck (2014 Ram 2500 diesel), I wired the 536 straight to one of the batteries. Most of the time the scanner would reboot during startup. It's just the load of the starter pulling the battery voltage too low for the scanner. My fix was to use a dc-dc converter. This one will handle input voltage down to 9.2 Vdc and still output the set voltage, 12 Vdc, in my case.
SD-50A-12: Mean Well: Power Supplies & Wall Adapters

I haven't had a single reboot since I installed this. I also installed a "power gate" from west mountain radio that will disconnect the load if battery voltage drops below a set level then reconnect as voltage rises to a preset level. The power gate was kind if expensive, I have since found a very basic low voltage disconnect on Amazon that was under $20. It is adjustable, through dip switches, for dropout & pickup voltages. I plan on using it in the car.

Jeff.

 

[mavrickma]

By the way, have you been able to test the voltage levels at the battery with a voltmeter to see how much the voltage actually drops during engine start?

John AC4JK

Put a multi-meter to the connector that plugs into the scanner and ran some tests.

1.) Key Off - 12-12.8VDC
2.) Truck Idling - ~13.8VDC
3.) Key on, Anti-Idle engaged, engine off - 12-12.8VDC
4.) Engine starting - through several test, low as 10.9VDC, highest was 11.3VDC

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Try a diode

Try a diode between the battery + and the super capacitor you installed. What you are seeing is transient load from the starter drawing the voltage down. Without a diode, the capacitor will be discharged as well. If you have a diode and large enough capacitor it should ride out the transient. See the cranking voltage profile in this article. You need a scope not a meter to see this voltage drop,

http://www.ti.com/lit/an/snva681a/snva681a.pdf

 

[mavrickma]

Try a diode between the battery + and the super capacitor you installed. What you are seeing is transient load from the starter drawing the voltage down. Without a diode, the capacitor will be discharged as well. If you have a diode and large enough capacitor it should ride out the transient. See the cranking voltage profile in this article. You need a scope not a meter to see this voltage drop,

http://www.ti.com/lit/an/snva681a/snva681a.pdf

Yup, tried that. On the output wire from the relay going to the scanner, I have a DC Noise Filter (acting as an inverter) to help limit High AC Spikes, then a diode which allows power in but not out, then (wired in parallel) a zener diode acting as a voltage regulator which limits the voltage to 13V and two capacitors (one 22000 microfarad and one 4700 microfarad). Then it goes to the scanner.

Still have the issue.

 

[JStemann]

The voltage on mine was dropping to around 10.5, if I remember right. With the dc-dc converter installed, the output to the scanner is 12vdc, always.

Jeff.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Can you explain the "DC noise filter/inverter? Also the 13V zener seems a bit low, and normally would require a current limiting device or resistor. Does the relay have a diode on the coil to snub tge back EMF? Can you put a scope on this and trap the transient?