2016 F150 Auto Start/Stop and scanner rebooting

[mavrickma]

Can you explain the "DC noise filter/inverter? Also the 13V zener seems a bit low, and normally would require a current limiting device or resistor. Does the relay have a diode on the coil to snub tge back EMF? Can you put a scope on this and trap the transient?

Don't have a scope.

Was told to try the noise filter to help clamp the high AC spikes during engine start. This isn't exactly my forte, so I don't really understand more than that unfortunately.

Relay does not have a diode on it. Just the diode that i have in-line between the relay and the capacitors.

The scanner is supposed to run normally at about 12V, so we figured 13V on the zener would be good. And with the load that I have, the math seemed to work out that I didn't need a resistor. I could be wrong on that though.

 

[sfd119]

I just read through this. The problem OP is having is the scanner voltage drops when the vehicle starts / restarts. I have all my radios and scanners in my truck wired through a ChargeGuard and then direct to the battery and have this issue with mine.

When I restart my truck, everything stays on except the BCD536. The voltage is dropping below the 536's threshold. While it does annoy me, I do not have the auto start like OP has, which would be frustrating!

OP: You're already on the trail. You'll need to find something to stabilize the voltage to 12v for those few seconds the vehicle is starting again. Let me know what you find as I would wire it inline to the 536 as well.

 

[mavrickma]

I just read through this. The problem OP is having is the scanner voltage drops when the vehicle starts / restarts. I have all my radios and scanners in my truck wired through a ChargeGuard and then direct to the battery and have this issue with mine.

When I restart my truck, everything stays on except the BCD536. The voltage is dropping below the 536's threshold. While it does annoy me, I do not have the auto start like OP has, which would be frustrating!

OP: You're already on the trail. You'll need to find something to stabilize the voltage to 12v for those few seconds the vehicle is starting again. Let me know what you find as I would wire it inline to the 536 as well.

Thanks for confirming that the Charge-Guard wouldn't solve. I was thinking that since all it is meant to do is shut off accessory power in order to not kill the battery.

I'll definitely let you know what I find. After some testing I did this morning, I'm thinking I either don't have enough capacitance or need a battery instead. More info on the testing to come shortly.

 

[mmckenna]

I'll definitely let you know what I find. After some testing I did this morning, I'm thinking I either don't have enough capacitance or need a battery instead. More info on the testing to come shortly.

A small secondary battery, like an ATV/Motorcycle/lawn tractor battery might be an option if this is really how it's going to work.
I had a 1994 GMC pickup with the dual battery option (not a Diesel). There was the normal starting battery. On the opposite side of the engine compartment, where the second battery would go for the Diesel engine trucks, I had the second battery. GM had a large relay/contactor between the main battery and the secondary battery. When the ignition was on, the two batteries were paralleled. When the ignition was off, they were separated. I used the second battery for the winch and the radios.

You might be able to rig up the same sort of thing cheaper than some of these other options. A small battery and a 100 amp relay with the coil connected to an ignition switched power source could be used to run your radios.

Thanks for posting all this. I'm looking at a new truck in the next year or two, so I'll keep this in mind about the current F-150's.

 

[sfd119]

One of the posters recommended MFJ-4416B. In reading more about, it looks like something I would give a try. Cheapest I could find it was $130.

Battery voltage booster, 12V

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

One of the posters recommended MFJ-4416B. In reading more about, it looks like something I would give a try. Cheapest I could find it was $130.

Battery voltage booster, 12V

Somebody also mentioned this which is $26 and probably has more than enough power for the application.

SD-50A-12: Mean Well: Power Supplies & Wall Adapters

http://www.jameco.com/Jameco/Products/ProdDS/1537483.pdf

 

[sfd119]

Somebody also mentioned this which is $26 and probably has more than enough power for the application.

SD-50A-12: Mean Well: Power Supplies & Wall Adapters

http://www.jameco.com/Jameco/Products/ProdDS/1537483.pdf

I saw that one too. The MFJ appears to have a lot of reviews for two way radios and scanners. The one you've linked doesn't have any reivews and I don't know if it would work or not for OP's application. But, for $26, it may be worth a shot.

 

[chief21]

The dc-dc converter mentioned in post #35 is essentially the same as the MFJ item, but only 4 amps (which is fine for a scanner) and is only about 25 bucks. That's where I'd put my money.

John AC4JK

 

[mavrickma]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. Trying to find the best and cheapest one. Also looking for a one-and-done solution, so all of your comments are proving quite valuable.

Would you go for the DC-DC converter over adding a battery? And for the battery, would this one work?

https://www.amazon.com/ExpertPower-..._UL160_SR160,160_&refRID=J3ZMCKHVNB934JQ6MEYH

 

[sfd119]

I wouldn't go for a battery if the above devices would work. A lot smaller and less maintenance.

 

[ofd8001]

Let me throw this out. Does you truck have an AC inverter such that you could use that and the AC adapter for scanner power? (My 2013 has one on the rear of the center console).

 

[mmckenna]

Depends on the load. If the scanner is the only issue, then yeah, stick with one of the DC-DC converter if it'll do what you need.

If you are going to be adding more radios down the road, and you expect to have the same issue, then a secondary battery might be a good idea. Many police cars are set up with a second battery in the trunk, but I doubt you need that level of back up.

It's an interesting issue, looking forward to hearing the outcome.

 

[mavrickma]

Depends on the load. If the scanner is the only issue, then yeah, stick with one of the DC-DC converter if it'll do what you need.

If you are going to be adding more radios down the road, and you expect to have the same issue, then a secondary battery might be a good idea. Many police cars are set up with a second battery in the trunk, but I doubt you need that level of back up.

It's an interesting issue, looking forward to hearing the outcome.

Lol - many might consider it a police car....
I'm a volunteer officer so I've got it set up for details and such. Full light/siren package, scanner, XPR4550 and a CB for my road-trips.

 

[ofd8001]

That throws a whole new twist on this. A second battery may be worth considering. Ever since I can remember, we'd always install a second battery on our fire department command vehicles. While modern electronics don't have the power draw of older stuff, they are much more sensitive/reactive to low voltages or voltage drops (as you've seen).

With a little bit of creative wiring with relays, you can put all of your emergency equipment on the "B" battery and have it charge from the "A" battery/vehicle power as needed.

 

[mavrickma]

Things to consider:

1.) Low budget - I'm volunteer, so don't want to go breaking the bank. Cheaper the better but make it work well.
2.) Very limited space. The engine compartment on this thing is already packed full. No adding a second battery there. And with the toys already installed, my space behind the back seat is quickly disappearing. That's why I was looking at that battery I linked.
3.) Everything else works exactly how I want it currently except for the scanner.

 

[mmckenna]

Then that battery is probably not the best choice. Gel cells like that tend to want a different float voltage than a standard starting battery likes. Paralleling them together without some sort of charge controller in the middle would probably not be a great idea. Maybe something like an AGM starting battery for a motorcycle or ATV would be sufficient, but then it gets expensive.

If running down your starting battery isn't a concern, then it probably not as big a deal. While you may respond with lights & siren, I'd bet you have LED lights and once you get on scene you shut things off, right?

So then it's probably back to just dealing with the scanner and not let scope creep take over the design.

 

[mavrickma]

Then that battery is probably not the best choice. Gel cells like that tend to want a different float voltage than a standard starting battery likes. Paralleling them together without some sort of charge controller in the middle would probably not be a great idea. Maybe something like an AGM starting battery for a motorcycle or ATV would be sufficient, but then it gets expensive.

If running down your starting battery isn't a concern, then it probably not as big a deal. While you may respond with lights & siren, I'd bet you have LED lights and once you get on scene you shut things off, right?

So then it's probably back to just dealing with the scanner and not let scope creep take over the design.

Very well put.

Yes, all lights are LED. And I always leave my truck on if I'm using lights. Much rather be able to leave the scene then have the embarrassment of needing a jump to leave (had to do that to a buddy a couple of times unfortunately).

 

[mmckenna]

I don't own one of these scanners, so take this from an outsiders point of view:

Seems like a pretty short sighted design for a mobile device. Would have been easy to address this with an internal battery, even something like a 9 volt battery that would retain operation for a few minutes would have been beneficial.
Also, it seems like if these manufacturers are trying to fill the needs of professionals, semi-professionals, or just really serious hobbyists, putting some thought into how they are used would be a good idea. Ignition sense circuit would be a start.

Again, I'm an outsider, so take that with a grain of salt. I know what I like in my LMR radios, though.

 

[mmckenna]

I don't own one of these scanners, so take this from an outsiders point of view:

And to be fair, if this is the way the new F-150 works, as in this isn't a battery issue, then it seems a bit flawed. A lot of public works agencies use F-150's, and a lot of them have warning lights and radios. I understand that your other radios are not impacted by this, but having the 12 volt buss drop to 10.5 every time the engine does it's start/stop routine seems like an area that needs improvement. Like I said in an earlier post, my dad had a Chevy Malibu or Impala (can't recall) that had the start/stop feature. It had a small battery in the trunk to support accessories, separate from the engine starting battery. Seemed like a good design, and was nice for hooking up his 2 meter radio.

 

[mavrickma]

Ignition sense circuit would be a start.

Right? Especially in a radio that requires a power-down by switch to save anything to the SD card. My biggest pet peeve with this radio is that I can't save a L/O without spinning the volume dial back and forth to turn off/on the radio.