Brevard County P25 Migration

[rescue674aa]

They have 39 in all of them though.


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[TDR-94]

That just means the P25 trunking feature is enabled in the radio. I'm sure some of the P7300 and XG's already have feature 47 enabled in them as well as 37. That doesn't mean that the radio is programmed to work on a P25 system yet. The radios are being replaced and upgraded in stages as budgets permit. XLP's will probably start to be ordered. The P7300's have been EOL'd and the XG's are pretty much there too.

 

[rescue674aa]

Brevard didn’t dump a ton of money in for XG75s and mobiles. They are too broke to buy XLPs well FPL did it. But I don’t think the county will.



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[TDR-94]

They will have to replace the P7100's that are in use if they want to go full P25 Phase 2. The XLP series will be the only replacement.

 

[srich10]

Well lookie here.... Harris Security just strapped ProVoice Crypto to their security channel. I heard my scanner cutting out on the EDACS system and thought it was Melbourne Spec Ops 2 or Palm Bay but nope...

Nothing but security checks during the night and door checks on buildings yet they feel special and have to hide their communications now

What a freaking waste...

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[rescue674aa]

Some things that are encrypted are useless when you read the channel.


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[ElroyJetson]

I've questioned why a commercial security department, that of Harris Corporation, is allowed to operate on a public safety trunked radio system that operates in the portion of the 800 MHz band that by FCC rules and regulations is restricted to exclusive use for public safety operations only.

Harris internal security is NOT a public safety organization. The very most that can be said to stretch the point is that at some unknown point in the future they may have to call for police or fire/rescue response vis the countywide talkgroup.

I consider the presence of Harris corporate security on this taxpayer funded system to be at least ethically questionable if not an actual violation of law.

I have also expressed my concerns directly to the County but they basically said "We think it's fine, thanks for your concern.".

I think Harris can darned well affort to set up its own private security communications system.

And now they've switched to provoice? Well, maybe this is in response to people being able to monitor them in the clear and questioning their presence.

Well, all my radios have provoice enabled and I pre-program every talkgroup for provoice operation. So I can hear them and didn't even have to reprogram a radio.

By default every talkgroup is set to digital (provoice) and in this mode I'll pick up both analog and provoice activity with no action required on my part.

The joke's on them. Until they encrypt I'll be listening in on them if I wish to.

 

[srich10]

I've questioned why a commercial security department, that of Harris Corporation, is allowed to operate on a public safety trunked radio system that operates in the portion of the 800 MHz band that by FCC rules and regulations is restricted to exclusive use for public safety operations only.

Harris internal security is NOT a public safety organization. The very most that can be said to stretch the point is that at some unknown point in the future they may have to call for police or fire/rescue response vis the countywide talkgroup.

I consider the presence of Harris corporate security on this taxpayer funded system to be at least ethically questionable if not an actual violation of law.

I have also expressed my concerns directly to the County but they basically said "We think it's fine, thanks for your concern.".

I think Harris can darned well affort to set up its own private security communications system.

Agreed on all points. I don’t believe they’re FLETC/FDLE certified nor trained sworn officers of the state or county. Thus, they probably are not LE under FL statute and should not qualify for legal operation federally under the bands as you described.

Well I can tell you from working in the .MIL/DoD field, I’ve tracked and monitored that the other gov contractor companies in the Melbourne corridor and KEC/Cape area(GE, NG, LM, Rockwell, etc...) ALL are using DMR type systems for their security officers AND they’re all in the clear.

This is just typical string pulling skirting what’s codified statutorily so that it doesn’t apply to thee...




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[rescue674aa]

K4SVT found this on the internet..this is a time line of when Brevard will go P25 and it looks like not anytime soon

He’s just helping but I just forward the information he gives to me. Very informative and helpful on this stuff.

Dustin.

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[ElroyJetson]

It's quite possible that Brevard will have the last operating EDACS system serving a public safety organization before it's turned off. I have no problem with that if it's meeting their needs at that time.

But it's kind of surprising that the timeline is at such a relaxed pace given that Harris has its corporate headquarters in Melbourne. You'd think they'd have pushed for a faster changeover and tried to make the Brevard system a showpiece in their own home town.

 

[srich10]

It's quite possible that Brevard will have the last operating EDACS system serving a public safety organization before it's turned off. I have no problem with that if it's meeting their needs at that time.

But it's kind of surprising that the timeline is at such a relaxed pace given that Harris has its corporate headquarters in Melbourne. You'd think they'd have pushed for a faster changeover and tried to make the Brevard system a showpiece in their own home town.

That’s what I’m perplexed at. I see more Harris LMR Youtube videos promoting their radio systems in places like Pennsylvania and upper north areas rather than here at their flagship main headquarters location.

On a side note to the earlier Harris Security encryption; I caught an unencrypted analog transmission on the Harris Security secondary channel of a unit calling into base and base responding analog unencrypted.

The unit said he was going to the north part of the county and said he’d be out of radio contact(he said his radio wouldn’t work up there...????). Interesting tidbit if they’re slaved to the southern cell only and have no roaming capability on the northern side.

He also stated that everybody was complaining about the new PRV ENC radios and that no one could get them working; and that they(CII I’m assuming) would take a couple more weeks to get them fixed up enough. There’s been an incredible amount of ENC traffic on both of these Channels ENC during times I haven’t heard them before( middle of the day to sunrise other than standard overnight checkins)


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[ElroyJetson]

So is this traffic actually encrypted or just provoice?

I've found that provoice can be problematic. I've had situations where I have two radios with the same exact profile programmed into them and one will hear a given provoice transmission and the other will not. That's with the radios scanning OR not scanning and stopped on that talkgroup. And later, the reverse situation occurs, with the radio that COULD hear the previous PV transmission not hearing the new one, and the radio that could not hear the previous PV transmission can't hear the former.

If it's that flaky on system radios then I'd question its usage.

 

[srich10]

So is this traffic actually encrypted or just provoice?

I've found that provoice can be problematic. I've had situations where I have two radios with the same exact profile programmed into them and one will hear a given provoice transmission and the other will not. That's with the radios scanning OR not scanning and stopped on that talkgroup. And later, the reverse situation occurs, with the radio that COULD hear the previous PV transmission not hearing the new one, and the radio that could not hear the previous PV transmission can't hear the former.

If it's that flaky on system radios then I'd question its usage.

At least from what my 536 was showing, it was ENC which given our EDACS system is not P25 enabled, it would be PRV ENC. I get the same ENC indicator and abrupt audio blip on Melbourne ‘s PRV ENC channel Spec Ops2 and Palm Bay SID 2.

Until my new computer I built gets delivered Wednesday, I won’t have time to fire up any trunk tracking software to decode if it’s actually ENC PRV or my scanner not decoding it properly. Too much of a pain trying to emulate windows from MAC OS X and get the SDR communicating properly.

Weird how they cutover so finitely this weekend yet some radios haven’t been flashed with the update and run mixed mode analog and PRV ENC on that channel with nothing to fall back to in case issues came up...which they have. AND given the supposed communications issues arising, I’m surprised there hasn’t been a retraction or at least reversion back to analog or clear PRV. They flashed this for both their primary and secondary Channel with no testing at least from what I’ve heard listening to this system. I haven’t see CII testing this before they applied it like they normally do.


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[TDR-94]

I can confirm it's PV ENC. I heard it the other day. Harris is probably worried about a mass shooting scenario. It would be one of their own if anybody! Harris security is kinda a joke anyway.They really shouldn't be on the PS system.They should be back in golf carts and issued FRS radios. It probably would not have gone over well if they had denied Harris security access on the system. lol!

Why would you want Harris to make the Brevard Public Safety system a showcase for their secure communications technologies to begin with? I swear it's becoming more and more comical how so many claim that ENC is ruining their so called "hobby" when it's seems that the "hobbyists" are trying their damn-dist to make it a reality.lol!

That's just been my observation anyway.

The timeline posted conforms to what I've heard. By that time Brevard will probably just go straight to Phase 2 operation. It's also possible that Brevard might just decide to fully encrypt all PD transmissions by then as well. If it just so happens that Volusia and Indian River county decide to fully encrypt all PD traffic,I wouldn't bet on Brevard county being the only hold out in east central Florida.

 

[srich10]

I can confirm it's PV ENC. I heard it the other day. Harris is probably worried about a mass shooting scenario. It would be one of their own if anybody! Harris security is kinda a joke anyway.They really shouldn't be on the PS system.

Why would you want Harris to make the Brevard Public Safety system a showcase for their secure communications technologies to begin with? I swear it's becoming more and more comical how so many claim that ENC is ruining their so called "hobby" when it's seems that the "hobbyists" are trying their damn-dist to make it a reality.lol!

That's just been my observation anyway.

The timeline posted conforms to what I've heard. By that time Brevard will probably just go straight to Phase 2 operation. It's also possible that Brevard might just decide to fully encrypt all PD transmissions by then as well. If it just so happens that Volusia and Indian River county decide to fully encrypt all PD traffic,I wouldn't bet on Brevard county being the only hold out in east central Florida.

There are no plans I’m aware of for any LE jurisdictions to be encrypting anything that already isn’t strapped or selective(like in Titusville). Nor do any of the budgetary procurement documents I’ve pulled show any allocations or purchasing of any high level crypto add-ons(AES-256 entitlements), KVL or other similar crypto loading or provisioning tools when they’ve been ordering the P25 entitlements for their radios they have currently or are on order.

Indian River has an oddball ProVoice here or there but in the years I could pick them up from St Lucie before SLC strapped crypto themselves(asinine), IRC was and is in the clear. Similar situation for Volusia whenever I’d go to a Daytona IMSA race.


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[rescue674aa]

I think they should just encrypt Specific Talkgroups. Not the whole system.


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[TDR-94]

A beachside agency requested an order for XG-75P's along with AES and Phase 2 in their purchase sheet to CII a few years ago.

I'm just saying that I wouldn't bet the farm on things being the same way they are now when the switchover to P25 Phase 2 happens.By 2021 everything could change from what those older documents had indicated at the time.

 

[srich10]

A beachside agency requested an order for XG-75P's along with AES and Phase 2 with in their purchase sheet a few years ago.

Ahh, I’ll have to dig further then. I thought I covered most of the agencies but I probably forgot one of those smaller beachside ones. 2 stoplights and you’re out of their jurisdiction...


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[rescue674aa]

But throw this out there

William has been talking to the radio manager and says that there is no plans to encrypt the system since there are so many outside users.



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[TDR-94]

Well,then that is indeed promising news. Who are all these outside users? Federal agencies? Will 'Will' elaborate further?