Denver Chooses Motorola for P25 Phase II System, Public Safety will be Encrypted

[KD0DUJ]

The news media have refused to sign the contract, citing such parts of the contract as the Draconian requirements to allow the city to inspect their records while they are using the radios, and for 3 years after the termination of the contract. There are also provisions for 5 different types of insurance the city would require the media to purchase.

The DFD PIO claimed that in order to communicate with DPD, the DFD talkgroups also had to be encrypted. Not true. Fire departments in Aurora, Westminster, Thornton, Lakewood (West Metro), Arvada, etc., do not have that problem. It appears that DFD was either misinformed, misunderstood, or found it convenient to mislead the public. I don't know which it is.

It was promised that DFD alerting would remain in the clear, and that has been done. The Vocalarm channel remains available on 154.07 MHz (PL 103.5 if you want to use it). However, only the initial dispatch is on that channel.

EMS dispatch is also in the clear on the new P25 system, see the RR database Denver Trunking System, Denver, Colorado - Scanner Frequencies.

Curt Good point

 

[KD0DUJ]

I think DFD mislead the public

 

[Insulator]

As far as I'm concerned, both agencies have. That's after 40 years in the field. For what's it worth

 

[KD0DUJ]

As far as I'm concerned, both agencies have. That's after 40 years in the field. For what's it worth

I agree

 

[eyes00only]

About 45 years monitoring Denver and I never heard anything that would put a fire fighter in jeopardy.

 

[riccom]

This sickens me to no end, i can not see why the fire Department is full E and hiding, for what reason, i am not one to chase a fire call, nore anyone else really.

To me this is the city and county finally having a reason to "control the flow" of information.
Was it not in 86 when a news chopper(i want to say news 4) help stop a kidnapping suspect and all use of a uhf radio (he did talk to the police on and was ok to)
What happend, and 9-11 is not an excuse anymore.

 

[kv6o]

About 45 years monitoring Denver and I never heard anything that would put a fire fighter in jeopardy.

In 2012, James Holmes used what he learned about response times and tactics in the Aurora theater shooting. He had planned on his apartment blowing up to distract responders away from the theater. Luckly, his apartment boobytraps failed...

It's not often, but all it takes is once.

 

[ShyFlyer]

In 2012, James Holmes used what he learned about response times and tactics in the Aurora theater shooting.

Which can still be done without the use of a scanner or app.

 

[kv6o]

Which can still be done without the use of a scanner or app.

Sure, but it's a heck of a lot easier to do so by listening to radio traffic. It's going to be pretty had to determine where various units are in real time (on scene, clear, quarters, etc) unless you're following them. It's a rare threat, but the risk is large - especially if you're in Aurora's shoes.

 

[ShyFlyer]

Sure, but it's a heck of a lot easier to do so by listening to radio traffic.

I don't disagree. However, the old saying "where there is a will, there is a way" still holds. I've seen what can happen despite tight controls.

I feel the bigger picture here is not really "Officer Safety" but controlling the flow of information. I think someone touched on that earlier in this thread (or perhaps another). Departments are under tremendous scrutiny, both from legitimate sources and other...self appointed "experts" and this is just an easy way to shut down a way to take situations, operations, and/or decisions out of context and in turn use them against the department in a court or court of public opinion. This is way many department PIOs are dedicated to that role (and often former news reporters) rather than an Officer who took on an extra duty assignment.

"We need encryption for Officer safety" is just an easily digestible excuse that is also easy to defend.

 

[scanlist]

Article on Chief Pazen's First year. Part way down the interview there are questions about what has been discussed here.

From Westword:

Paul Pazen on His First Year as Denver Police Chief

.

 

[blantonl]

Our responsibility, first and foremost, is to keep the community safe, and prior to radio encryption, if a witness were to call in, say, a violent crime, that information would have been publicly broadcast, and anybody who had more than a dozen free apps on their cell phones could hear who called the police, who the witness on it was, and typically their name, their address and their phone number. That was the same with victims of crime, including victims of high-level crime.

This is just straight up not true.

 

[riccom]

This is just straight up not true.

Lindsay being from denver man years i can say denver police has had a " we dont care what you think!" Way of thinking.
This right here shows it, and 30 years ago a long (at the time nbc4) stopped a man from kidnapping a woman from being killed as the helicopter stopped the truck before it pulled away.
There is clips of this and how did this happen out yes the scanner in his rig.
Now we are at the mercy of the p.i.o. and they say what is supposed to be said.
I am ok for ncic and swat to be encrypted even the mobile units.
But keep dispatch open.

 

[citiot]

This is just straight up not true.

Lots of people on the forums. Over a million registered users. Any thought utilizing the 'contact your representative' site/apps to apply pressure to politicians? Like https://info.votervoice.net/

Local politicians find it easy to ignore 1 or 2 people (dismissed as scanner nuts). But, if they start getting blasts in higher numbers, they might pay attention.

Thoughts?

 

[riccom]

Lots of people on the forums. Over a million registered users. Any thought utilizing the 'contact your representative' site/apps to apply pressure to politicians? Like https://info.votervoice.net/

Local politicians find it easy to ignore 1 or 2 people (dismissed as scanner nuts). But, if they start getting blasts in higher numbers, they might pay attention.

Thoughts?

It wont matter man, maybe 20 years ago. But with the hype of being "safe" and motorola making that extra 80 bucks per radio, it wont matter.
Look at little rock.

 

[allend]

There have been some cities and counties already fully encrypted for almost 20 years now since after 9/11.

It's just the way it is for some cities and counties moving forward to encrypt all of their PD traffic. It's never going to change in favor for us. This has been the new normal for years now and people have just come to accept it now, since the fight never wins.

 

[kv6o]

The scanning hobby has always been an opportunistic hobby. We have never been able to listen to PD/FD/EMS phone conversations, read their e-mails, look at open calls in CAD, etc., in real time. You can do these things via open records requests, if doing so doesn't violate other laws and/or other reasons that vary state to state. If and when an agency moves to FirstNet for dispatching, for example, it's already encrypted an illegal to intercept - and has been for over 20 years.

It's because it has been there for so many years that some think its a "right". It is not. Ironically, an agency might choose to stream a dispatch (or other) channel for the public - even if the radio side is encrypted. By doing so, they can control availability, and add delays during critical incidents, ore remove access all together. But at the end of the day, the radio system is there to support the users in the best manner possible, not scanner hobbyists.

It's like a baseball field that you could easily see from across the street. You could watch games just by looking in. If a fence blocked your view one day, is it your "right" to be able to see into this field? No.

 

[KD0DUJ]

I'm hearing channel 1 on 154.070

 

[David628]

I'm hearing channel 1 on 154.070

Are you hearing just the tone out calls, or are you hearing the full dispatch to fire engine radio conversations and traffic?

 

[KD0DUJ]

I'm hearing tone out calls and full dispatch to fire engine radio conversations and traffic