Goosetown/Triangle Communications Tier 3 System

[GTR8000]

Those 454 MHz frequencies are not licensed to specific sites, but are instead licensed in blocks for specific areas/regions. You won't find licenses for them, not in the traditional sense.

I'm not sure what you mean by "they are not Tier 3 DMR" when clearly this is a Tier 3 system and those are Triangle Communications sites, including the 454 MHz ones. Trust me on that.

 

[blueseas]

We agree to disagree on the Triangle Comm sites. I really don't think so, however, if I find it to be correct, I will be the first to admit that they are and that I stand corrected. Triangle is mainly MADRN (Mid-Atlantic Digital Radio Network) here where I am. I do appreciate the information though and that another or two are involved in trying to figure out who these folks are. They are a "new" signal to me on my SDR. I have catalogued all that I have found before that gives me at least a respectable incoming signal. And these signals popped up out of thin air in the past 60 days. Anyway, cheers ! Thanks for your info.

 

[GTR8000]

Mid-Atlantic is a Connect Plus system, which has been EOL (End of Life) for years now. Everyone is moving to some form of Tier 3 now, either Capacity Max (Motorola's replacement for Connect Plus), or a standard Tier 3 system like Selex. Goosetown and Triangle have settled on Selex, and this is exactly what you're seeing. The early stages of the replacements for OneVoice and Mid-Atlantic. There really is nothing to debate, I've given you the info on two of the sites you've discovered. Take it or leave it, I guess. 🤷‍♂️

 

[seagravebuff60]

Well, this went downhill fast.

 

[blueseas]

What I really think it is, is what you mentioned initially. This somehow and in someway related to your Goosetown site up there in NY, CT, NE. The reason I think that is that I am getting the same RIDs here on these new sites that all of you RX'ed on Goosetown. I.e., 4000001, 4000005, 4000003, 4000002. That is what I am getting here. But it is the frequencies that are all different than what is listed on Goosetown. The L6--(which is actually in error), but is really 5, is the same as what I have here.'

 

[seagravebuff60]

But it is the frequencies that are all different than what is listed on Goosetown.

What do you mean by that?

 

[u2brent]

Yes, I understand that and that is why I went and plugged in the SDS200 from Uniden to gather the correct data as DSD+ is erroneous. Nowhere in Triangle Comm is there a frequency of 454.600 or.. 454.16875. Also, as far as I know, they are not Tier 3 DMR. 454.16875 is not listed as licensed to anyone/anywhere on the FCC database. Checked it three times at FCC.gov on ULS. But Lo and behold it is live on three scanners and an SDR Play Duo here at my QTH. Very little traffic, except for an occasional "test" on voice.

WPVH212 454.6

Results for 454.16875 in PA

1	WQWF674	A. M. Pugh Associates	0024693400	IG	Active	08/10/2025
2	WNRM367	ACCU SORT SYSTEMS INC		IG	Expired	03/02/2005
3	WNWA745	ALBERT, EMERY G	0006517619	IG	Expired	04/10/2001
4	KNEF988	B A RADIO COMPANY INC	0004442265	IG	Expired	11/23/2012
5	KD26428	B R WILLOUGHBY & ASSOCIATES		IG	Expired	04/18/2003
6	WRWI469	Capital Area Communications, Inc	0028800548	IG	Active	02/24/2033
7	WRKY819	Cardinal Communications, LLC	0030379127	IG	Active	03/05/2031
8	WQCF310	Cattron Group Inc	0003188471	IG	Expired	02/17/2006
9	WPVH410	Centre Communications	0003984119	CP	Active	06/21/2032
10	WPVH411	Centre Communications	0003984119	CP	Active	06/21/2032
11	WPVH421	Centre Communications	0003984119	CP	Active	06/21/2032
12	WPVH422	Centre Communications	0003984119	CP	Active	06/21/2032
13	WQDR906	Centre Communications	0003984119	CP	Active	06/21/2032
14	WQUA721	Commpaths, LLC	0022132088	IG	Active	05/21/2024
15	KNGB478	DONLEY, DOUGLAS N	0003250495	IG	Expired	03/01/2013
16	WQDC553	Draeger Safety, Inc.	0007313661	IG	Expired	07/22/2015
17	WNGI860	FREESE, C A	0004441200	IG	Active	04/19/2031
18	WNKB258	GAI-Tronics Corporation	0003271277	IG	Active	10/19/2032
19	WNNY503	GLENN KRECKMAN COMPANY	0006516884	IG	Expired	03/30/2014
20	WQKH770	Hazzak Incorporated	0018766600	IG	Expired	05/26/2019
21	WZT777	INDUSTRIAL COMMUNICATIONS COMPANY	0003263837	IG	Expired	01/06/2013
22	WQAN365	KUHN'S RADIO COMMUNICATIONS	0003176211	IG	Expired	07/07/2014
23	KNEP415	LICOM COMMUNICATIONS	0003261484	IG	Active	01/06/2033
24	KNEB282	LINK COMMUNICATIONS INC		IG	Expired	11/03/2002
25	WNZS827	MADSEN, PETER J	0003431434	IG	Expired	06/18/2012
26	WPVF839	Mobile Communication Service, Inc.	0003188133	CP	Canceled	06/21/2022
27	WPVF840	Mobile Communication Service, Inc.	0003188133	CP	Canceled	06/21/2022
28	WQJP482	Phoenix Contact	0018145342	IG	Expired	11/17/2018
29	WPSR350	PRECISION LASER & INSTRUMENT	0005356399	IG	Expired	07/17/2011
30	WNMY227	R F COMMUNICATIONS	0003256369	IG	Expired	10/27/2003
31	WNLM524	S L SPOTTO CO INC	0008573925	IG	Active	04/27/2033
32	WPVF372	Schuylkill Mobile Fone, Inc	0003256666	CP	Active	06/21/2032
33	WPVI490	Schuylkill Mobile Fone, Inc.	0003256666	CP	Active	06/21/2032
34	WPVI491	Schuylkill Mobile Fone, Inc.	0003256666	CP	Active	06/21/2032
35	WPZG639	Schuylkill Mobile Fone, Inc.	0003256666	CP	Active	01/08/2024
36	WPZG640	Schuylkill Mobile Fone, Inc.	0003256666	CP	Active	01/08/2024
37	WQMX270	Schuylkill Mobile Fone, Inc.	0003256666	CP	Active	11/03/2030
38	WQMX271	Schuylkill Mobile Fone, Inc.	0003256666	CP	Active	11/03/2030
39	WQMX284	Schuylkill Mobile Fone, Inc.	0003256666	CP	Terminated	11/03/2020
40	WQMX291	Schuylkill Mobile Fone, Inc.	0003256666	CP	Active	11/03/2030
41	WQMX292	Schuylkill Mobile Fone, Inc.	0003256666	CP	Active	11/03/2030
42	WQMX312	Schuylkill Mobile Fone, Inc.	0003256666	CP	Active	11/03/2030
43	WQMX313	Schuylkill Mobile Fone, Inc.	0003256666	CP	Active	11/03/2030
44	WQMX335	Schuylkill Mobile Fone, Inc.	0003256666	CP	Active	11/03/2030
45	WQMX345	Schuylkill Mobile Fone, Inc.	0003256666	CP	Active	11/03/2030
46	WQMX369	Schuylkill Mobile Fone, Inc.	0003256666	CP	Active	11/03/2030
47	WQMX370	Schuylkill Mobile Fone, Inc.	0003256666	CP	Active	11/03/2030
48	WNYG668	SUPERVALU PITTSBURGH DBA SUPER VALU		IG	Expired	01/22/2002
49	WNVN407	SYSTEMS INNOVATION INC		IG	Expired	02/20/2001
50	WRER297	TOWN COMMUNICATIONS	0004436325	IG	Active	12/04/2029
51	WNYV578	TRANSCOMM DATA SYSTEMS INC		IG	Expired	03/23/2002
52	WNVG742	TRIANGLE COMMUNICATIONS INC	0003245768	IG	Expired	01/23/2006
53	KB74994	VECTRAN CORPORATION	0003181278	IG	Expired	08/31/2003
54	KAV372	WEST PENN COMM CORP	0004356085	IG	Expired	03/23/2013

 

[GTR8000]

It always amazes me when someone asks for help with something like this, they are given a clear and detailed answer by a long standing reputable member who has proven time and again that they are in the know (a database admin, no less), and they then argue what is clearly right in front of them.

You've even got me liking Brent's post, congratulations on that monumental accomplishment!

 

[blueseas]

That may be. The EOL thing, transitioning. Happens all the time. I am unaware of this here locally , but that certainly is possible. All I am reporting is what I am finding. This is new stuff (these 4 signals) to me and I have been monitoring these bands for quite some time now, have witnessed the transition from analog to digital the past 15 years. So I am trying to find out if anyone else is seeing these, right ? That's all. Sorry it went all / on us. Not my intention. Have a nice evening, all of ya !

 

[blueseas]

Your insults are duly noted, thank you very little. As I said, have a nice evening.

 

[GTR8000]

Insults? Now you're being a bit thin-skinned. I've come into this thread with nothing but the intention of providing the info you were seeking, and instead it's met with a response of "Nope, that's wrong." You provoked a testy response from me by coming across as less than appreciative for the info.

Since I'm feeling generous tonight, I'll even solve the mystery 454 MHz sites for you: 192 is Red Lion, and 193 is York (both in York County, PA)

 

[seagravebuff60]

What I really think it is, is what you mentioned initially. This somehow and in someway related to your Goosetown site up there in NY, CT, NE.

First off, Goosetown is not a site; It's a system.

Second, you originally posted your findings, so we answered and helped you make sense of them, and instead of accepting the response, you denied and argued about it.

But wow, Ive never seen a thread go downhill so fast.

 

[u2brent]

After digging a bit more..
WPVH421 works perfectly for Red Lion's CC of 454.16875 (But it's a Centre Communications license)
Are these following a standard band plan for the LCN's? Have any been determine for these 4 newly discovered sites? How are you getting voice traffic on the SDS if set up as a "MotoTRBO Trunk"? What voice channels (if any) have been observed?

Here's Red Lion's site 192 CC3 details for example as I have it set up in Sentinel..


Of course if I find myself within range I'll run the LCN finder..

 

[DaveNF2G]

After digging a bit more..
WPVH421 works perfectly for Red Lion's CC of 454.16875 (But it's a Centre Communications license)
Are these following a standard band plan for the LCN's? Have any been determine for these 4 newly discovered sites? How are you getting voice traffic on the SDS if set up as a "MotoTRBO Trunk"? What voice channels (if any) have been observed?

Here's Red Lion's site 192 CC3 details for example as I have it set up in Sentinel..

View attachment 151122
Of course if I find myself within range I'll run the LCN finder..

Create a whole new system in Sentinel with everything set to Auto and Search. Let the scanner tell you what's going on.

 

[blueseas]

U2Brent, thank you for "digging" this information up. It fits. I checked that WPVH421 license on FCC.gov and it fits. So, I thank you.

Really embarrassed about last night's digression. For that I am sorry. Wasn't my intention for that to occur.

As far as the LCN's, haven't been able to achieve discovery with the LCN finder (SDS200) on any of the 4 frequencies.

DaveNF2G, thanks for your suggestion. I do have a "test" system setup on the SDS200 for this and all 4 frequencies do report, though two of them are rather weak and sporadic. But the Red Lion/York sites come in fine.

I am using a Diamond X510 HDM with 8 dB inline amplification for an antenna on these frequencies to RX. Works better than a discone for me.

Have a great day, gentlemen ! Thanks again.

 

[blueseas]

I do see that WPVH212 is Triangle Comm. GTR8000, I stand corrected in this regard. My apologies.

The other three, are Centre Comm. This is a bit confusing to me however. Are the two licensees somehow related in this ? Never mind. It is just good that the mystery is solved. Don't wanna dig up any more "worms". 73, gentlemen.

 

[seagravebuff60]

Are these following a standard band plan for the LCN's?

Of course if I find myself within range I'll run the LCN finder..

The existing sites of the LCNs were all found using the LCN finder or the TIII LCN Calculator.

 

[u2brent]

I do see that WPVH212 is Triangle Comm. GTR8000, I stand corrected in this regard. My apologies.

The other three, are Centre Comm. This is a bit confusing to me however. Are the two licensees somehow related in this ? Never mind. It is just good that the mystery is solved. Don't wanna dig up any more "worms". 73, gentlemen.

Of the 4 new sites you've discovered, only 1 is Centre licensed and that's just the control channel pertaining to Red Lion, the rest are Triangle including any potential voice channels, The callsigns can be viewed in the screengrab from my previous post.

Here are the details in a possibly easier to read format..

Site#-Color Code | Location/County | State | FCC License (If known) followed by...
Frequencies | LCN# | Color Code

104-0 Bloomfield/Hartford CT Unknown License 454.325000 347 Color Code 0

111-1 Pomona/Rockland NY WPMF704 478.825000 1959 Color Code 1

112-1 Valhalla/Westchester NY WQAF677 472.500000 1453 Color Code 1

130-1 Putnam Valley/Putnam NY WRMZ587 478.512500 1934 Color Code 1

131-3 Woodstock/Ulster NY WPXV511 463.362500 1070 Color Code 3

192-3 Red Lion/York PA WPVH421/WQOT822 454.168750 0 Color Code 3

193-4 York/York PA WPVH212/WQKQ261 454.600000 0 Color Code 4

194-7 Reesers Summit/York PA WPLY937 451.625000 0 Color Code 7

198-2 Penn Twp/Lancaster PA WNST294 463.725000 0 Color Code 2

Bare in mind that a Uniden scanner needs a correct LCN to trunk track voice traffic the 0 is just a place holder until the correct LCN is known, Not sure you'll ever RX traffic on the scanner without corrected LCN's and an additional voice channel or two as well. Not sure how the other confirmed sites behave in the scanner unless Slot 2 of the Control Channel is the only voice path. (Which I suspect is unlikely, If it truly will replace the CON+ system)

U2B

 

[GTR8000]

I'll reiterate that all of this is in the infancy stage, so it's premature to start drawing conclusions that get too into the weeds at this point. Control channels are on the air for testing, and in most cases that is the only channel on the air, ergo one slot serves as control and the other traffic (voice).

 

[pro92b]

On site 131 the only voice path is slot 2 of the control channel. Only Goosetown is active so far.

If the band plan holds then
454.600000 LCN 369
451.625000 LCN 130
463.725000 LCN 1099
454.16875 is on a 6.25 kHz step so the calculation changes