In re: Delete, Delete, Delete FCC looks to eliminate rules and regulations

[celestis]

$35 / 10 years = $3.50. $3.50 / 365 = 0.96c per day. I wish all my expenses were that small, none are.

Yeah no kidding, I just paid $190ish in taxes to the state for an unexpected $2920 profit gambling XSP put options as well… these guys’ heads will spin if they ever actually got $ in the door to pay taxes on

 

[Echo4Thirty]

Why get so complicated? The FCC should NOT be involved in anything the is NOT RF related. So pull EVERYTHING that has to do with telephone, hardwired internet, and whatever other stupid stuff they have in there. Let the industry sort that stuff out and utilize existing or new non-profit standards groups to set the standards for such things.
As to RF, again, regulate the RF part to keep everything/everybody in line with each other and the rest of the world. That's about it. Content only to the extent of keeping TV on TV segments, FM and AM broadcast on those segments, public safety on those segments, amateur radio on those segments, celluar, wi-fi, etc, etc.
That's it. Simplify it down to what it needs to keep things in order in the RF world and inline with ourselves and everyone else. Keep interference protections. Etc, Etc...

I do far more communications stuff that involves no RF than those that intentionally radiate. If Part 15 went away, you would not be able to hear anything on your Ham radio with all of the unintentional radiators. Its bad now WITH part 15, without the FCC being involved in non-RF matters, RF would be very unusable. Tons of non-radio devices fall under part 15, including aspects of literally every other RF service.

If anything they should have more authroity in this area, but we know it wont happen.

 

[DaveNF2G]

The right way to have done this would have been the normal process to reduce budgets and let the departments and agencies tighten the belt. The big waste is at DOD and that is a sacred cow unfortunately.

Yes, that process has worked so well for the past 100 years.

 

[DaveNF2G]

Someone without a profit motive needs to evaluate whether everything under the sun needs to use RF to operate.

 

[AK9R]

Here is the ARRL's response to this FCC announcement. The underlines are mine.

In a Public Notice titled “In Re: Delete, Delete, Delete,” issued on March 12, 2025, the FCC is soliciting public input on any FCC rules in any service that members of the public believe should be deleted or modified “for the purpose of alleviating unnecessary regulatory burdens.” This is the latest in a series of similar proceedings going back to 1996, when the Communications Act was amended to require the FCC to periodically review its rules.

ARRL The National Association for Amateur Radio®, through its Executive Committee and FCC Counsel, is conducting a review of the provisions in Part 97 and other related rules that apply to radio amateurs. ARRL is also soliciting feedback from its members. Rules identified as outmoded, obsolete, or that for other reasons should be repealed or modified, will be included in ARRL’s filing to be submitted no later than the FCC deadline of April 11, 2025. The deadline for filing reply comments is April 28, 2025.

It is expected that the Commission will incorporate suggestions that it decides worthy of its consideration in a future Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) that could be issued later this year. There will then be an opportunity for public comment on the specific rules that the Commission proposes for deletion or modification.

FCC Initiates Broad Inquiry on Rules to Delete or Amend

The American Radio Relay League (ARRL) is the national association for amateur radio, connecting hams around the U.S. with news, information and resources.

www.arrl.org

 

[wd8chl]

I do far more communications stuff that involves no RF than those that intentionally radiate. If Part 15 went away, you would not be able to hear anything on your Ham radio with all of the unintentional radiators. Its bad now WITH part 15, without the FCC being involved in non-RF matters, RF would be very unusable. Tons of non-radio devices fall under part 15, including aspects of literally every other RF service.

If anything they should have more authroity in this area, but we know it wont happen.

Did I say anything about Part 15? If a device is radiating RF, it falls in the RF enforcement purview. RF interference is RF interference.

 

[wd8chl]

The problem is allowing an industry to police itself doesn't work. Zero adult supervision is what invites waste, fraud and abuse. All the gaslighting, smoke and mirrors about "non profits setting standards is laughable". Without actual authority driven by those who don't have dogs in the fight, nothing ever gets done.

Let's see, private industry with little to no oversight has gifted us with:

DTV conversion (complete WAFWOT and waste of public money on "converter boxes" that barely worked)
Rebanding 800MHz (been there, done that. How many years and how many billions spent?)
Infiltration of part 15 devices with no RF emission standards, CCRs on unauthorized emissions/frequencies/power levels, et al
Ever increasing spam. fraud and scam texts, teleturd calls
Rising prices on broadband, poor broadband development and rollout of infrastructure nationwide
Raising prices on mobile service, zero standards for coverage, network availability and restoration, nor any standard for truthful information on cyber attacks, outages etc.

Yeah, let the big boys of telecom run the show. It's been working out SO WELL for us as consumers since the TELESCAM ACT of 1996 was put into practice. 30 years later we have this:

Ok, komrade...
Seriously, you'll have to talk to the consumer electronics industry about letting industry standards groups set standards that all follow-if they want to sell stuff.
EIA, TIA, IEEE, and many others.
RS-232? Voluntary. USB? Voluntary. Ethernet? Voluntary. No laws needed. Free market forces will push the industry to do things in a way that benefits the consumer, because the consumer drives a free market. If you don't please them, you don't sell. You lose.
Prices? For what you're getting, prices have done nothing but go down in consumer electronics. Look at computer memory and storage. It's so cheap now there's no excuse for not having at least 10-16 GB of RAM and several TB of storage. And that's because the market hasn't been regulated. Instead, the industry discovered very quickly that if you don't make components that are compatible with others, you don't sell. Consumers don't want proprietary formats. That's why you have things like IDE, SATA, USB, and all the other standards. And that's just one example.
Heck, going back in history, it wasn't the FCC that set how AM, FM, and TV broadcast work. The industry came up with formats. Sadly, the FCC picked a favorite, but it at least was back in the day when the FCC actually had engineers and others who knew how it worked, not just a bunch of bureaucrats. That's why those things you mention are kinda screwed up now-the FCC, and government in general, picking favorites (usually by who made the best "campaign contributions"/bribes), instead of letting the market decide.

 

[Echo4Thirty]

Did I say anything about Part 15? If a device is radiating RF, it falls in the RF enforcement purview. RF interference is RF interference.

but you referenced eliminating rules for things that dont fall under radio that are telecommunications. Like routers and switches and computers. All of which have EMI/RF emmssion regulations fall under part 15. DVD players, Computer monitors. The list goes on.

 

[Echo4Thirty]

RS-232? Voluntary. USB? Voluntary. Ethernet? Voluntary. No laws needed. Free market forces will push the industry to do things in a way that benefits the consumer, because the consumer drives a free market. If you don't please them, you don't sell. You lose.

Without regulation and an agency to enforce it, there is no such thing as a standard. Companies will build whatever crap they want and the consumer will get screwed over by snake oil junk that will end up as e-waste. We already see it in TEMU crap coming over here. Consumers want cheap and will just throw it away when it doesnt work or live up to a standard. You cannot rely on a profit motive company to have consumers best interests at heart. They are in business to make money, not volunteer to standard adherance that costs them money.

 

[celestis]

It's so cheap now there's no excuse for not having at least 10-16 GB of RAM and several TB of storage

what's to say the industry won't start price fixing like they did in the 90s and 2000s if everything was voluntary?

 

[Echo4Thirty]

I watched a documentary about the Phoebus cartel that was created when the incandescent light bulb was marketed. They were losing sales due to the bulb lasting. People didnt need to buy a light bulb as often because theirs lasted a long time. This cut into the profits of the major bulb manufacturers. They colluded to reduce the lifespan of the bulbs from around the 2500 hours to 1000. Any member of the cartel that produced a bulb that lasted longer than 1000 hours was fined. This lasted for almost 30 years until the goverment got involved to protect the consumer and found GE liable of the sherman antitrust act.

Left unchecked, companies will absoultly collude and give the consumer the shaft.

Phoebus cartel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Modern examples are Apple and John Deere locking insignifigant hardware to a serial number like a battery or screen then charging customers more to repair the product than to do a repair. The EU has had enough of this and is setting regulations to this to protect the consumer.

 

[Ensnared]

I support "E" or "e" for sensitive talk groups. If LE needs to move off of dispatch to go to these talk groups, cool. I consider myself lucky after Austin PD locked things up. In Waco, encryption is rather selective. Narcotic talk groups are "E" as they should be.

However, if federal grant money for purchasing radio systems goes south, I am going to smile. We learned lessons in San Angelo, Texas. Things can get messy particularly when corrupt operatives like "Funky Munky" are involved.

Former San Angelo Police Chief Sentenced to 15 ½ Years in Corruption Case

I still laugh about this. I greatly appreciate being able to share opinions here.

Yes, the FCC might be useful in cases like this one, LOL:

 

[MTS2000des]

Ok, komrade...
Seriously, you'll have to talk to the consumer electronics industry about letting industry standards groups set standards that all follow-if they want to sell stuff.
EIA, TIA, IEEE, and many others.
RS-232? Voluntary. USB? Voluntary. Ethernet? Voluntary. No laws needed. Free market forces will push the industry to do things in a way that benefits the consumer, because the consumer drives a free market. If you don't please them, you don't sell. You lose.

That's why, in civilized nations where gov's aren't owned by corporations (you know in Europe) the iPhone has USB-C, and a physical SIM slot. The free market only remains free when there are rules. Yes, I know, no one likes rules and being told no. The consumer doesn't get a free market when there are only 2 or 3 big mega players calling all the shots and doing as they effin please.

 

[DaveNF2G]

Ok, komrade...
Seriously, you'll have to talk to the consumer electronics industry about letting industry standards groups set standards that all follow-if they want to sell stuff.
EIA, TIA, IEEE, and many others.
RS-232? Voluntary. USB? Voluntary. Ethernet? Voluntary. No laws needed. Free market forces will push the industry to do things in a way that benefits the consumer, because the consumer drives a free market. If you don't please them, you don't sell. You lose.
Prices? For what you're getting, prices have done nothing but go down in consumer electronics. Look at computer memory and storage. It's so cheap now there's no excuse for not having at least 10-16 GB of RAM and several TB of storage. And that's because the market hasn't been regulated. Instead, the industry discovered very quickly that if you don't make components that are compatible with others, you don't sell. Consumers don't want proprietary formats. That's why you have things like IDE, SATA, USB, and all the other standards. And that's just one example.
Heck, going back in history, it wasn't the FCC that set how AM, FM, and TV broadcast work. The industry came up with formats. Sadly, the FCC picked a favorite, but it at least was back in the day when the FCC actually had engineers and others who knew how it worked, not just a bunch of bureaucrats. That's why those things you mention are kinda screwed up now-the FCC, and government in general, picking favorites (usually by who made the best "campaign contributions"/bribes), instead of letting the market decide.

OK, now tell us how AM stereo worked out.

 

[MUTNAV]

OK, now tell us how AM stereo worked out.

Great.... the same way Beta-Max and the Zune worked out, markets dealt with it.

Everyone is going to complain that either corporations own the government, or vis-versa, one is Socialism, the other is (inauthentic capatalism).

Thanks
Joel

 

[MTS2000des]

OK, now tell us how AM stereo worked out.

Exactly.

Great.... the same way Beta-Max and the Zune worked out, markets dealt with it.

Everyone is going to complain that either corporations own the government, or vis-versa, one is Socialism, the other is (inauthentic capatalism).

Thanks
Joel

They are certainly taking ownership here, and it will continue to have an effect on what we as consumers pay. As companies get swallowed up, prices go up. As companies have free will to sell shoddy products that pollute RF, we all suffer.

Other civilized nations that have a few hundred years more experience have figured out the puzzle and made sensible decisions about a BALANCE. They've had dictators kill a few million people, destroy economies, even societies. Guess it's our turn at bat to see how well that's gonna work out. Let's revisit in 4 years and see how great the FCC is then, if there even is one, or if it's all turned over to Omni Consumer Products.

 

[MUTNAV]

Exactly.

They are certainly taking ownership here, and it will continue to have an effect on what we as consumers pay. As companies get swallowed up, prices go up. As companies have free will to sell shoddy products that pollute RF, we all suffer.

Other civilized nations that have a few hundred years more experience have figured out the puzzle and made sensible decisions about a BALANCE. They've had dictators kill a few million people, destroy economies, even societies. Guess it's our turn at bat to see how well that's gonna work out. Let's revisit in 4 years and see how great the FCC is then, if there even is one, or if it's all turned over to Omni Consumer Products.

Pretty sure it wasn't the dictators that destroyed/damaged the Dutch, British etc... economies.

This was very interesting to me...

Thanks
Joel

 

[MTS2000des]

Yawn, predictable. I guess it wasn't dictators who didn't kill 6 million people. That's the next thing you'll school me on. Back on topic, the deregulating an already broken FCC isn't a solution. The FCC failures in policy start during the end of the Regan era when technical minds began being replaced with telecom industry stooges who pander policy to the very cartels that send them. Becomes a revolving door. The current chair is straight outta Georgetown, born and bred DC lawyer for sale. Zero actual RF experience. But that doesn't matter, why not have baggage handlers fly airplanes? Seems that'll be the airline industry's answer to rising costs.

 

[MUTNAV]

Sorry, thread has gotten way to emotional when accussation start flying like this.

Best wishes
Joel

 

[prima19rider]

I do not think this FCC program will have any effect on amateur radio. Licensed amateurs think they are very important, they are not.