MSWIN HELP with BCD436HP

[Ronnierozier2]

It does. You're not getting a lot of signal. Keep running that test.

it keeps stopping on these: Morgan City, carrollton and north carrollton. My primary interest is Greenwood Police department and sheriff department being im in the middle of greenwood. but ill take carrollton SO also if i can

769.4062 - carrollton - heard traffffic for a few seconds 2 times



769.9687 Morgan City - blue light but static
773.8187 North Carrollton - blue light but static
769.9062 Carrollton - blue light static
773.3187 North Carrollton - blue light

 

[slayer816]

does this tell you anything? I have a guy just text me this who has access to the MSWIN system cause he programs their radios around here. He says all these frequencies are being used

No. See post 37 MSWIN HELP with BCD436HP

it keeps stopping on these: Morgan City, carrollton and north carrollton.

Then I will make you a full MSWIN system with only those three sites. Try that.

My primary interest is Greenwood Police department and sheriff department being im in the middle of greenwood. but ill take carrollton SO also if i can

The way P25 sites work is pretty simple. When monitoring a site, you will hear all talkgroups active on that site. You will NOT hear talkgroups that ARE NOT active on that site. Agency radios work a lot better than our scanners. It's a good chance Greenwood PD, Leflore SO, and Carrollton SO are active on all those sites. However this requires you to be able to monitor them.

Being where I am, I can only suggest things that will help your programming. You alone are the only one that can tell me what works and doesn't. My method of testing is to tell me what you can receive knowing you are at a beginner level. Right now we need to get a solid reception on at least one site (preferably more). Give the following programming a shot. This will be full MSWIN P25 talkgroups but only those three sites (Morgan City, Carrollton, and North Carrollton).

There are different antennas that can help. But trust me, it doesn't look like reception is good where you are with that radio. So we'll continue this route for now. Let me know what happens. Remember this will scan all three sites, therefore if one goes active while others are being scanned, you will miss transmissions. If none of them are decoding at all, you need to move the scanner to where at least one of them is in constant data reception rage.

In the meantime I suggest learning how to hold on sites, hold on talkgroups/departments, and overall understanding of the radio. You don't have to go full blown reading scholar with this right now; but you need to be able to handle basic operation now that it sounds like signal is the issue (maybe, I need more feedback).

Easier to Read BCD436/536HP Digital Scanner Manual

Be sure to hold on this new system or delete the others. Every time you add a file, it's going to add it to the rotation and you'll end up scanning way more than you should be right now. Only scan the following file.

 

[webdave]

slayer816,
Thanks for doing all you are doing to help this guy.
It's people like you that make these forums such a great place!

webdave

 

[AC0RV]

slayer816, Give me a holler have some questions. Thanks

 

[Ronnierozier2]

No. See post 37 MSWIN HELP with BCD436HP



Then I will make you a full MSWIN system with only those three sites. Try that.



The way P25 sites work is pretty simple. When monitoring a site, you will hear all talkgroups active on that site. You will NOT hear talkgroups that ARE NOT active on that site. Agency radios work a lot better than our scanners. It's a good chance Greenwood PD, Leflore SO, and Carrollton SO are active on all those sites. However this requires you to be able to monitor them.

Being where I am, I can only suggest things that will help your programming. You alone are the only one that can tell me what works and doesn't. My method of testing is to tell me what you can receive knowing you are at a beginner level. Right now we need to get a solid reception on at least one site (preferably more). Give the following programming a shot. This will be full MSWIN P25 talkgroups but only those three sites (Morgan City, Carrollton, and North Carrollton).

There are different antennas that can help. But trust me, it doesn't look like reception is good where you are with that radio. So we'll continue this route for now. Let me know what happens. Remember this will scan all three sites, therefore if one goes active while others are being scanned, you will miss transmissions. If none of them are decoding at all, you need to move the scanner to where at least one of them is in constant data reception rage.

In the meantime I suggest learning how to hold on sites, hold on talkgroups/departments, and overall understanding of the radio. You don't have to go full blown reading scholar with this right now; but you need to be able to handle basic operation now that it sounds like signal is the issue (maybe, I need more feedback).

Easier to Read BCD436/536HP Digital Scanner Manual

Be sure to hold on this new system or delete the others. Every time you add a file, it's going to add it to the rotation and you'll end up scanning way more than you should be right now. Only scan the following file.

Slayer,

Thanks for all the help you provided me. I want to run something by you to see what you think.

I programmed Leflore County (42) in my scanner and deleted all TGID's except Greenwood Police - Dispatch. I left all the counties in there and its a lot of them, then sent to my radio. I started getting random hits on counties nowhere near me. I was getting transmissions on Tunica, which is 2.5 hours north of me. MDOT Warren, which is several hours in the other direction and about 4 more counties no where near me. To my novice thinking it looks like the entire MSWIN system frequencies are simple a rolling database used by the entire state. Could it be that ill never get this worked out because of the hundreds of frequencies that Greenwood PD could be using. I dont think this scanner is quick enough to scan 300+ frequencies and catch transmissions where i can hear the whole thing.

Just in 1 hour of scanning i received transmissions on Thaxton,Tunica,Carrollton,Morton, MDOT Warren, Quinn, Rock Hill.......All of these except Carrollton are 2+ hours away from me.

Second Question: I have all 280 frequencies that are programmed in Greenwood Police Department's radios. I tried to make a single entity with all 280 frequencies but when i got to around line 26 the software kept crashing so I gave up. Is it possible to have Leflore County (42) then program all 280 frequencies under that? I couldnt get the software to accept more than about 27-29 before it would continually crash. I'm wondering if the software's database cannot handle that many entries? Just curious if this is possible and would it be feasible?

Please Advise.

 

[tvengr]

I programmed Leflore County (42) in my scanner and deleted all TGID's except Greenwood Police - Dispatch. I left all the counties in there and its a lot of them, then sent to my radio. I started getting random hits on counties nowhere near me.

I started getting random hits on counties nowhere near me. I was getting transmissions on Tunica, which is 2.5 hours north of me. MDOT Warren, which is several hours in the other direction and about 4 more counties no where near me.

The number of talkgroups in a trunked system does not affect the scanning speed. The number of sites does. The control channel frequencies in statewide systems are often reused in sites spaced far apart. If those frequencies are used in another county, your scanner doesn't know which site (county) it is receiving. You think that you are receiving the Tunica and MDOT Warren sites when you are actually receiving the frequencies in the Carrollton site. That is another reason not to include all of the sites in the state. The SDS100 and SDS200 have the ability to use site NAC. Those scanners are able to differentiate between sites using the same frequencies. From your location, you should be using only the Morgan City site in Leflore County and the Carrollton and North Carrollton sites in Carroll County. If you scan the sites in every county, you will miss most of the radio traffic while scanning all of the out of range sites in the other counties.

3 (3)

008 (8)

Carrollton

Carroll

769.40625c

769.65625c

769.90625c

772.98125

3 (3)

024 (18)

Tunica

Tunica

769.15625

769.40625c

769.65625c

769.90625c

771.08125

771.38125

771.63125

2 (2)

010 (A)

MDOT Warren

Warren

769.15625

769.40625c

769.65625c

769.90625c

773.15625

774.68125

 

[fredva]

Personally, I would not recommend programming your scanner like the police department radios. The PD might need to travel elsewhere in the state to provide mutual aid, attend training, etc., and would want to communicate on the state system no matter where they are. So their radios are probably set up for that. For now, you are just looking to hear what is happening locally. You want only the frequencies for the sites that are near you. When it comes to scanning, less is often better.

 

[fredva]

Also, don't be discouraged. I think the issues can be worked out. It's just a matter of gaining understanding. There is a learning curve.

 

[slayer816]

OP,

I like to help beginners because I've been there. I also have the patience of a small gnat so I get it. But you got to pay attention and listen to us (I'm not the only one here trying to help you.) You do not have to listen to any of us; however not listening to us and doing additional steps has and is going to continue getting you nowhere. No offense, but the best thing for you to do; is to stop.

What are the results of the site experiment? Which sites did you pick up clearly with no issue? I only gave you three on purpose...those three were the best (although not perfect) for your current location/radio combination. We cannot move forward unless you provide the information requested. As someone else stated, the frequencies for one site can and will share frequencies for another. They will usually be far apart as to not interfere. Considering you can barely pick up a site in your own county, I assure you that you are not picking up Tunica. That's why I didn't give you Tunica, or any further outside of your obvious range such as Natchez etc.

I still don't know what sites you can pick up clearly. I need more info. The site will be visible when you get signal or a transmission. Ignore frequencies and channels and Greenwood Police radio programming. What sites did you clearly pick up transmissions on?

I programmed...

Why? I did it for you specifically to slowly learn this in steps that you hopefully can understand. You are not ready to tackle the full database yet or program it yourself.

To my novice thinking it looks like the entire MSWIN system frequencies are simple a rolling database used by the entire state.

It is, in the database programming. That's why I shortened it to only what you have told me you can pick up, so far. The entire database is not going to help you at your current experience level. I'm attempting to shortcut this for you. You tried the database thing before you asked for help remember.

Could it be that ill never get this worked out because of the hundreds of frequencies that Greenwood PD could be using

I don't believe you yet understand trunking and how it works. You need to read the wiki page that was posted.

Trunking Basics - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

Failure to do so means that you will never understand the system. If you don't understand the system, you cannot monitor it (per say).

I dont think this scanner is quick enough to scan 300+ frequencies and catch transmissions where i can hear the whole thing.

It's not. I don't know of a radio that is. But they aren't using 300+ frequencies. Theres "300+" POSSIBLE frequencies, but they are only using one pair at a time (input and output) and only the output is what is what you listen to. Which one? TRUNKING. It does it all for you (and the agency radio). If you have it programmed correctly. Again, read the wiki link. Trunking uses a set of frequencies and computers to allow a set of talkgroups (channels) to use the entire system more efficiently. You do not have to program these. Your radio is capable of control channel only programming, meaning you only need to program the control channels and that is all. That is what I've done for you. Less is more in this case.

Second Question: I have all 280 frequencies that are programmed in Greenwood Police Department's radios. I tried to make a single entity with all 280 frequencies but when i got to around line 26 the software kept crashing so I gave up. Is it possible to have Leflore County (42) then program all 280 frequencies under that? I couldnt get the software to accept more than about 27-29 before it would continually crash. I'm wondering if the software's database cannot handle that many entries? Just curious if this is possible and would it be feasible?

No, just no. As stated by myself and others, do not program anything on that list. All it has done is make things worse and confuse you even more.

I've done this to hand feed you, take it as such and it will work.

 

[slayer816]

Sorry, I missed the line where you stated you picked up Carrollton for sure and alot of others on your "programming." Go back to my "programming" and confirm you can pick up..

1) All three sites?
2) Just one or two site(s)?

And...

A) One site is better reception than another site
B) All sites are roughly the same reception quality

Thanks.

 

[Ronnierozier2]

Sorry, I missed the line where you stated you picked up Carrollton for sure and alot of others on your "programming." Go back to my "programming" and confirm you can pick up..

1) All three sites?
2) Just one or two site(s)?

And...

A) One site is better reception than another site
B) All sites are roughly the same reception quality

Thanks.

Slayer,

For sure I recieved clear transmissions on Carrollton, North Carrollton, and Morgan City if I remember correctly. All three sounded about the same and I could clearly understand what they were saying. This was all done inside my home so I wouldnt think reception is not the problem but I could be wrong.Don't know if helps but arounf 6pm This afternoon I had a Greenwood Police officer friend of mine come by my house and we sat in his car and listen to his radio for about 10 minutes. I would estimate I missed about 85% of the transmissions. the traffic I did hear was on those 3 sites tho.

I'm going to read the material you posted so I will get a better understanding on how this all works. Sorry if it may seem like im ignoring your advice and instruction im just a little anxious because ive spent this money on the radio and cant seem to get it to function like i want. patience was not a virtue bestowed upon me by my creator.

Slayer, What does it mean when the blue light on my radio flashed. this has only happened when i put your programming in my scanner.

 

[slayer816]

Sorry if it may seem like im ignoring your advice and instruction im just a little anxious because ive spent this money on the radio and cant seem to get it to function like i want. patience was not a virtue bestowed upon me by my creator.

Thats fine, and that's exactly why I don't want you to go the wrong direction. No offense when I say things such as "you're not ready for that yet." It's because I'm the exact same way so I really understand. You're going from old school analog to to digital P25 trunk. That is a HUGE leap. But it seems like we're making progress yes?

It seems to work better if you see it work for yourself. So hopefully you are seeing it work a little better at a time. I suspect you are missing transmissions because you're either A) scanning all these programmings at once and / or B) scanning all three sites like I asked you to. Although I would expect a lot less than 85% missed.

What does it mean when the blue light on my radio flashed. this has only happened when i put your programming in my scanner.

I programmed those in on purpose to catch your eye when it hit a frequency. Those can be programmed on frequencies as well as trunked talkgroups. It's just a visual alert and nothing more. I have mine on Solid Blue for LE, Solid Red for fire, Solid Green for EMS, Solid Yellow for Public Works or Schools, and flashing yellow for unknowns. But you can literally set this up anyway you want or none at all.

---
The first test was making me iffy about your signal strength. The second test you said you received all three sites well. I'm confused. Anyway, moving on. Look at the following:

Easier to Read BCD436/536HP Digital Scanner Manual

Site Hold section. What you wanna do is learn how to hold on one site and not scan them. Keeping in mind that there may be periods of inactivity obviously, but when you hold on one site; you will never miss the first transmission. You will only miss a subsequent transmission if one talkgroup is active while you are monitoring another one. But you will not miss any due to multiple site scanning consecutively.

Step 3
1) Hold on one for awhile, checking that reception is good. And see what happens.
2) Release the hold and hold on a different site and repeat.
3) When you get good with that, hold on a department as well (aka Lefore County for example).
4) Notice that the combination of site holds and department holds may give you a different result of what you hear. Holding prevents scanning for more stuff.
5) Report results

 

[Ronnierozier2]

Thats fine, and that's exactly why I don't want you to go the wrong direction. No offense when I say things such as "you're not ready for that yet." It's because I'm the exact same way so I really understand. You're going from old school analog to to digital P25 trunk. That is a HUGE leap. But it seems like we're making progress yes?

It seems to work better if you see it work for yourself. So hopefully you are seeing it work a little better at a time. I suspect you are missing transmissions because you're either A) scanning all these programmings at once and / or B) scanning all three sites like I asked you to. Although I would expect a lot less than 85% missed.



I programmed those in on purpose to catch your eye when it hit a frequency. Those can be programmed on frequencies as well as trunked talkgroups. It's just a visual alert and nothing more. I have mine on Solid Blue for LE, Solid Red for fire, Solid Green for EMS, Solid Yellow for Public Works or Schools, and flashing yellow for unknowns. But you can literally set this up anyway you want or none at all.

---
The first test was making me iffy about your signal strength. The second test you said you received all three sites well. I'm confused. Anyway, moving on. Look at the following:

Easier to Read BCD436/536HP Digital Scanner Manual

Site Hold section. What you wanna do is learn how to hold on one site and not scan them. Keeping in mind that there may be periods of inactivity obviously, but when you hold on one site; you will never miss the first transmission. You will only miss a subsequent transmission if one talkgroup is active while you are monitoring another one. But you will not miss any due to multiple site scanning consecutively.

Step 3
1) Hold on one for awhile, checking that reception is good. And see what happens.
2) Release the hold and hold on a different site and repeat.
3) When you get good with that, hold on a department as well (aka Lefore County for example).
4) Notice that the combination of site holds and department holds may give you a different result of what you hear. Holding prevents scanning for more stuff.
5) Report results

thanks for the information. I’ll do as advised and report back in a day or so and let you know the results

 

[Ronnierozier2]

Thats fine, and that's exactly why I don't want you to go the wrong direction. No offense when I say things such as "you're not ready for that yet." It's because I'm the exact same way so I really understand. You're going from old school analog to to digital P25 trunk. That is a HUGE leap. But it seems like we're making progress yes?

It seems to work better if you see it work for yourself. So hopefully you are seeing it work a little better at a time. I suspect you are missing transmissions because you're either A) scanning all these programmings at once and / or B) scanning all three sites like I asked you to. Although I would expect a lot less than 85% missed.



I programmed those in on purpose to catch your eye when it hit a frequency. Those can be programmed on frequencies as well as trunked talkgroups. It's just a visual alert and nothing more. I have mine on Solid Blue for LE, Solid Red for fire, Solid Green for EMS, Solid Yellow for Public Works or Schools, and flashing yellow for unknowns. But you can literally set this up anyway you want or none at all.

---
The first test was making me iffy about your signal strength. The second test you said you received all three sites well. I'm confused. Anyway, moving on. Look at the following:

Easier to Read BCD436/536HP Digital Scanner Manual

Site Hold section. What you wanna do is learn how to hold on one site and not scan them. Keeping in mind that there may be periods of inactivity obviously, but when you hold on one site; you will never miss the first transmission. You will only miss a subsequent transmission if one talkgroup is active while you are monitoring another one. But you will not miss any due to multiple site scanning consecutively.

Step 3
1) Hold on one for awhile, checking that reception is good. And see what happens.
2) Release the hold and hold on a different site and repeat.
3) When you get good with that, hold on a department as well (aka Lefore County for example).
4) Notice that the combination of site holds and department holds may give you a different result of what you hear. Holding prevents scanning for more stuff.
5) Report results

Slayer,

One more question out of curiosity if I may sir? My employer (utilities power generation and transmission) just implemented PowerTrunk TETRA system for internal use covering half the state of MS. I don’t know much more about that system other than what I mentioned above. 1. Is it possible that my scanner can hear those transmissions 2. What type of technology/system is powertrunk TETRA?

 

[slayer816]

Is it possible that my scanner can hear those transmissions

No

My employer

Agency radios exempt .... They can obviously monitor (AND TALK!) assuming they give you one and it's authorized.

What type of technology/system is powertrunk TETRA?

It's a European TDMA technology that I don't know much about since no one uses it (around me) and is not monitor-able without maybe some receivers and I think SDR can. There's tons of articles on google and I believe I've seen a section or two in these forums / wiki about it.

covering half the state of MS.

Obviously not the western half unless Entergy is going to it after spending tons of money upgrading to P25.... and we haven't discovered it all yet.... Is it....? -_-

 

[Ronnierozier2]

No



Agency radios exempt .... They can obviously monitor (AND TALK!) assuming they give you one and it's authorized.



It's a European TDMA technology that I don't know much about since no one uses it (around me) and is not monitor-able without maybe some receivers and I think SDR can. There's tons of articles on google and I believe I've seen a section or two in these forums / wiki about it.



Obviously not the western half unless Entergy is going to it after spending tons of money upgrading to P25.... and we haven't discovered it all yet.... Is it....? -_-

yes I have a handheld Model SC20 and a mobile unit in my truck. It’s a pretty neat system little I know about it. I like how I’m able to put my truck radio in gateway mode and my SC 20 handheld will use my truck as a repeater being that it has a lot more range.You right it is the western part of the state from Tunica all the way to the gulf coast. It’s not Entergy but a smaller company out of Hattiesburg that does the same thing as Entergy. I’m an EE for them. I believe the system operates somewhere in the 463Mhz if I’m not mistaken. We have over 100 microwave towers and about 1/3 of the microwave site have an IP based repeater inside the building. The system is currently released to us, the communications department and a select few EPA’s right now. We use the microwave towers as our backhaul. That’s about all I know 😂

 

[slayer816]

yes I have a handheld Model SC20 and a mobile unit in my truck. It’s a pretty neat system little I know about it. I like how I’m able to put my truck radio in gateway mode and my SC 20 handheld will use my truck as a repeater being that it has a lot more range.You right it is the western part of the state from Tunica all the way to the gulf coast. It’s not Entergy but a smaller company out of Hattiesburg that does the same thing as Entergy. I’m an EE for them. I believe the system operates somewhere in the 463Mhz if I’m not mistaken. We have over 100 microwave towers and about 1/3 of the microwave site have an IP based repeater inside the building. The system is currently released to us, the communications department and a select few EPA’s right now. We use the microwave towers as our backhaul. That’s about all I know 😂

Interesting. Entergy in your area needs work (on the database). Perhaps when you are able to receive at your leisure, you can help us discover missing sites and what not even if you do not wish to monitor (its fun also, to some of us anyway).

By the way, when the easier to read manual says FUNC plus DEPT to hold a site, they really mean fast. You don't have to machine gun it, but you do have to be quick about it. If I remember correctly you see a little F or something to indicate that you're still within the time limit to use it. I sold my 436HP so I'm going by memory on all this.

 

[Ronnierozier2]

Interesting. Entergy in your area needs work (on the database). Perhaps when you are able to receive at your leisure, you can help us discover missing sites and what not even if you do not wish to monitor (its fun also, to some of us anyway).

By the way, when the easier to read manual says FUNC plus DEPT to hold a site, they really mean fast. You don't have to machine gun it, but you do have to be quick about it. If I remember correctly you see a little F or something to indicate that you're still within the time limit to use it. I sold my 436HP so I'm going by memory on all this.

Slayer,

I installed ProScan and run the list you gave me and if you will take a look at the log and tell me what you think. I'm still only hearing 1/2 of the conversation but sometimes i hear both sides. being that I can hear this im not giving up on hearing everything all the time, im just confused on what needs to be worked out to hear everything all the time.

Thanks again for your time. and for your prevous comment about Entergy, yes, ill absolutely help with the database when i get things going.

 

[slayer816]

You're scanning the previous systems as well as MSWIN. You see all those hits that say "conventional"? The more you scan the longer the delay to return to it, that's probably why your getting "half the conversation". The scanner has moved on to another system in your FL before there is a response. You need to either delete the conventional system or hold on the MSWIN system. And it looks like Carrollton showed up more times than anything so, that may be your best "site"...

 

[Ronnierozier2]

You're scanning the previous systems as well as MSWIN. You see all those hits that say "conventional"? The more you scan the longer the delay to return to it, that's probably why your getting "half the conversation". The scanner has moved on to another system in your FL before there is a response. You need to either delete the conventional system or hold on the MSWIN system. And it looks like Carrollton showed up more times than anything so, that may be your best "site"...

What is the difference in setting the programming to conventional vs P25? i dont quite fully understand that yet. I appears that its hitting on conventional 2:1 vs P25 using the same frequency. common denominator im seeing BUT, im hearing voice comms on both P25 vs conventional