No more encryption in calif as of Jan 1 2024

[mmckenna]

I have no doubt the county can encrypt...but getting the actual funding approved is going to be a chore, once the funds request hit the board of supervisors agenda.

You are really far off the mark here.
They absolutely do run encryption on some channels.
I run encryption on some of my systems in Santa Cruz.

Not sure where you are getting your information from, but whoever is giving it to you is wrong.

 

[Peter_SD911]

What part is wrong?
The part about the non-cooperation? The part about the DOJ task force?
I don't hear any encryption on the Netcom system.

One exception... Scotts Valley PD has run DES or DVP since the late 1980's on occasion mostly on their "yellow".

What else am I missing?
"Jeep and Explorer" seem to still be in the clear. We all know those 2 channels have nothing to do with jeeps or explorers (hehe)

Santa Cruz Netcom is probably my absolute favorite system to monitor based on the non-stop action and variety of calls.

Everyone is crazy here!

It's the political atmosphere in San Cruz county....NOT the technical abilities of the radio shop that I'm talking about. Spend some time in a local city council meeting or a board of supes meeting, and you will see what makes Santa Cruz sooooo special.

I get it...
Radio techs don't need to pay attention to the local politics..
Not your job.

But Santa Cruz is Gilligans Island when it come to politics.

Every professional protester and local activist in the county owns a scanner. Every weed farmer owns a scanner in Santa Cruz and most local NGO's and social service providers are tuned to the scanner during the winter storms and landslides. You mention full encryption on the "blues" and people will freak out.
They will march and block the Hwy 1 and 17 off ramps like they always do when the kiddies get upset.

Encryption cost money to implement and maintain. Santa Cruz county always runs a budget deficit. The people of the county prefer to fund touchy-feely stuff...not more law enforcement toys that cost money.

It's all about the money and the politics in SC county.

 

[mmckenna]

politics.

Seems to be mostly what you are talking about here.

Sweeping generalization and dragging politics into everything doesn't equal a technical discussion.

Encryption cost money to implement and maintain. Santa Cruz county always runs a budget deficit. The people of the county prefer to fund touchy-feely stuff...not more law enforcement toys that cost money.

All the equipment is in place to start running encryption. The only decision that remains is if it'll be done on P25 trunking or P25 conventional.

 

[marcotor]

The Port of San Diego Harbor and Airport police have "unencrypted" except for PII as of this week.

I know the Port PD is operating in the clear currently, has there been some announcement of this being "permanent" made?
Source?
PIO contact?

 

[Peter_SD911]

Seems to be mostly what you are talking about here.

Sweeping generalization and dragging politics into everything doesn't equal a technical discussion.

Nobody doubts you about the ability to flip that switch...
But not every agency is on-board with the non-existand Netcom JPA "proposal".

You make it sound like there is an existing trunked P25 system already in place, and that the Netcom JPA just has to make a simple decision.
Did I miss the part where you said both system options were in place now?

My guess is the users will make "County Red" the record and inquiry channel like they already do in heavy traffic times with the option of encryption.

Encryption cost money, and it cost money to maintain it.
Who pays for that?

 

[Peter_SD911]

All the equipment is in place to start running encryption. The only decision that remains is if it'll be done on P25 trunking or P25 conventional.
[/QUOTE]
So if both systems are in place...then what is the delay?
Who needs to approve this decision?
Netcom JPA or the county radio techs?
Is there more cost involved that is delaying this decision?

 

[mmckenna]

You make it sound like there is an existing trunked P25 system already in place, and that the Netcom JPA just has to make a simple decision.
Did I miss the part where you said both system options were in place now?

All the equipment upgrades done over the last 10+ years have been to p25 capable equipment. The Tait repeaters are all running analog, but will do P25 with reprogramming. Backhaul has been mostly replaced with IP.
Mobiles/portables are P25 ready. No one has bought any equipment not capable of P25 and encryption in a long time.

The choice is to go with a P25 conventional system or P25 trunked. That's still being discussed. The consultant has already provided the report. It's just a case of wether the county wants to fund a trunked system or not. Fire wants to go trunked...

Encryption cost money, and it cost money to maintain it.
Who pays for that?

It's already been paid for. All the equipment is in place. It's just a case of programming the radios. I've been working with the County on this for a while.

Like I said, not sure where you are getting your information from, but it is not accurate.

 

[Peter_SD911]

I know the Port PD is operating in the clear currently, has there been some announcement of this being "permanent" made?
Source?
PIO contact?

All the equipment upgrades done over the last 10+ years have been to p25 capable equipment. The Tait repeaters are all running analog, but will do P25 with reprogramming. Backhaul has been mostly replaced with IP.
Mobiles/portables are P25 ready. No one has bought any equipment not capable of P25 and encryption in a long time.

The choice is to go with a P25 conventional system or P25 trunked. That's still being discussed. The consultant has already provided the report. It's just a case of wether the county wants to fund a trunked system or not. Fire wants to go trunked...




It's already been paid for. All the equipment is in place. It's just a case of programming the radios. I've been working with the County on this for a while.

Like I said, not sure where you are getting your information from, but it is not accurate.

You keep saying my info it "inaccurate" for some reason.
Thank you for updating me on the tech aspects of the Netcom systems. I hope I was able to share the political hurdles

So a trunked system is not in place.
So one must assume it's not funded or approved yet.

Please don't tell me the annoying "Digital Doris" fire dispatching is coming to SC anytime soon.

Thank You for your time this afternoon.

 

[mmckenna]

You keep saying my info it "inaccurate" for some reason.
Thank you for updating me on the tech aspects of the Netcom systems. I hope I was able to share the political hurdles

Netcom runs the PSAP.

County runs the radio systems.

Two different groups.

So a trunked system is not in place.
So one must assume it's not funded or approved yet.

Trunked system is not in place.
What IS in place is all the P25 ready repeaters/receivers/voters to make switching from an analog system to P25 just a case of reprogramming the equipment. All agencies have P25 ready radios.

The decision to go with a countywide trunked system or to stick with conventional has not been made. A consultant was hired a while back to come up with a plan. It's expensive and it's not something the county can afford without a bond measure. I hope they don't go trunked, but some agencies want to be like the "big city".

Switching from VHF analog to VHF P25 conventional, including encryption, would just require programming existing equipment.

 

[Larry-G]

Encryption cost money to implement and maintain. Santa Cruz county always runs a budget deficit. The people of the county prefer to fund touchy-feely stuff...not more law enforcement toys that cost money.

Encryption for the most part is pre built into the radios / infrastructure as standard. Some retailers may try to tell end users that it costs to activate and maintain but that’s just untrue. To encrypt a modern radio system these days is literally a flip of a switch. no maintaince costs over the regular service and replacement of faulty equipment is needed either.

 

[KevinC]

Encryption for the most part is pre built into the radios / infrastructure as standard. Some retailers may try to tell end users that it costs to activate and maintain but that’s just untrue. To encrypt a modern radio system these days is literally a flip of a switch. no maintaince costs over the regular service and replacement of faulty equipment is needed either.

So key management, adding algorithms, rekeying radios and a host of other things are no cost???

I always like the “flip of a switch” response. It shows who has and hasn’t implemented encryption.

 

[Larry-G]

So key management, adding algorithms, rekeying radios and a host of other things are no cost???

I always like the “flip of a switch” response. It shows who has and hasn’t implemented encryption.

It’s certainly not as difficult as people like you or those selling the service try to make it out.

 

[KevinC]

It’s certainly not as difficult as people like you or those selling the service try to make it out.

Ok.

 

[d119]

The Port of San Diego Harbor and Airport police have "unencrypted" except for PII as of this week.
The agency is part of the San Diego County RCS./..which has been moving toward full LE encryption since the 2019 rebuild.

Thank you to the port of San Diego!!!

Boy you sure got caught up in your assumptions, now didn't you? They're back to encrypted, it was temporary for a mutual aid thing.

And you thought it was permanent.

You just destroyed your credibility and proved you're nothing but assumptions. Congratulations! You made the who's-who of who's-who.

As someone who has worked in public safety communications for some time, I find it beyond amusing when people sitting at home with scanners know exactly what's going on, bar-none. And then spew misinformation based on personal assumptions, rhetoric and crap all over the internet.

You know we laugh at you.

 

[Peter_SD911]

What assumptions?
Those were all statements of fact.
I stated they were in the clear. I never stated anything as to the reason or anything else.
I also thanked them.
So they went back to encryption...I never said they wouldn't or couldn't

So again I ask you....
What was incorrect or an "assumption"?

I will be happy to correct any info I was wrong with.
What we learned...
SD harbor PD and Airport will dump encryption for mutual aid reasons according to D119.

I "ASSUME" D119 confirmed this ,and has 2 reliable sources???

The old skool media required 2 good sources....what did the county radio shop require for "sources"?
Show your work D119 !!!

Boy you sure got caught up in your assumptions, now didn't you? They're back to encrypted, it was temporary for a mutual aid thing.

And you thought it was permanent.

You just destroyed your credibility and proved you're nothing but assumptions. Congratulations! You made the who's-who of who's-who.

As someone who has worked in public safety communications for some time, I find it beyond amusing when people sitting at home with scanners know exactly what's going on, bar-none. And then spew misinformation based on personal assumptions, rhetoric and crap all over the internet.

You know we laugh at you.

In the future I will get your approval ...before I post.

 

[Peter_SD911]

Ok.

Get this...
A Socal (Municipal) radio shop/JPA recently claimed that they needed 2 full-time added positions JUST to administer and maintain encryption.
Full-Time civil service workers....to "flip a switch".

Can't they just find some 14 year kid or a "freelance radio tech" to run the key-loader at $200 per day and per-diem?

 

[KevinC]

Get this...
A Socal (Municipal) radio shop/JPA recently claimed that they needed 2 full-time added positions JUST to administer and maintain encryption.
Full-Time civil service workers....to "flip a switch".

Can't they just find some 14 year kid or a "freelance radio tech" to run the key-loader at $200 per day and per-diem?

Yeah, I’m going to trust my key loader to some 14 year old kid or a random “freelance radio tech”.

 

[APX7500X2]

Looks like the issue here is the people who know the technical information and how things really work, are trying to explain this to the people who live for political drama, and will never let go that they are correct in what they believe..might not be correct but its correct in their mind and you can never change it.
Easy to spot them. They show up and have 16 posts and are the experts on everything, the people who have 1000s of posts and are known to the community as experts or at least know what they are talking about, now know nothing

Sounds like NYC LOL

 

[mmckenna]

Easy to spot them.

Come on now, don't spoil our entertainment.

It's always fun when the hams/hobbyists go into deep detail explaining our own systems to us. Sometimes I try to correct them. Other times, I just let them keep digging.

 

[marcotor]

Easy to spot them.

Particularly the ones who have been banned multiple times and don't realize there is a cadence to their posts that makes them easy to spot.