Somerset County TRS Update

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W2SJW

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Anything you buy right now is going to be quickly outdated, as the system is slated to be Phase-II TDMA when complete, and the only thing that will do that right now is the GRE PSR-800.
 

rr60

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Somerset TRS in the News

"A change in federal policy for the nation’s airwaves may have wasted $6 million of taxpayer money in Somerset County, which had been in the middle of a federally mandated overhaul of its radio frequencies'.
It's a change that forces the county to surrender its frequencies, but one that will ultimately make it easier for first responders across the nation to communicate with each other."

Somerset County may have wasted $6 million because of revised policy on radio frequencies | NJ.com

My brief .02...The article is not accurate. The dollars that have been spent and are to be spent are way more than 6 million and then all of those taxpayer dollars gets thrown in the trash!

My best guess is 15 million has been spent, not counting subscriber units and soft costs. The dollars to be spent for a new system will be way more than has been spent in the past (15 million guess). I do not think Somerset is interested in national 700MHZ LTE system. Everyone knows Cellular does not work in an emergency or diaster now for various reasons. It is well known that voice on LTE is an open question as is subsciber fees.

What happened as a result of this law is terrible, but that is what happens when special interest entities spend millions in Washington lobbying for new laws. What a mess, just dig deeper. Cha Ching.
 
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KC2ZHY

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What happened as a result of this law is terrible, but that is what happens when special interest entities spend millions in Washington lobbying for new laws. What a mess, just dig deeper. Cha Ching.

This is the problem with Washington in general and public government forcing things down your throat with stolen (i.e. taxed) money. This would never happen in private enterprise because there would be actual accountability and they would have to answer to their losses and inefficiencies. But, you know, give the government more and more of our power.

Public safety enterprise knows what needs to be done; they don't nor shouldn't have to keep waiting on the government's next asinine ruling in order to keep the system going. This is just one of many examples that keep coming up regularly. Then everyone yells why taxes are so high and there are no results. Again, one word: accountability. It's lost in our federal government.
 

902

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This is the problem with Washington in general and public government forcing things down your throat with stolen (i.e. taxed) money. This would never happen in private enterprise because there would be actual accountability and they would have to answer to their losses and inefficiencies. But, you know, give the government more and more of our power.

Public safety enterprise knows what needs to be done; they don't nor shouldn't have to keep waiting on the government's next asinine ruling in order to keep the system going. This is just one of many examples that keep coming up regularly. Then everyone yells why taxes are so high and there are no results. Again, one word: accountability. It's lost in our federal government.
With all due respect, who do you think is pushing Washington to make those decisions? If we didn't have to narrowband, we would still have a number of MASTR-II, Micor, and even Motrac and MASTR-PRO radios in service. There's no reason to buy something new if what you have works fine. "But we got more frequencies out of it, right?" Maybe on UHF, and they're already gone in most places. But do you really think narrowbanding created any new channels on VHF - especially in areas that need additional frequencies? Now, the manufacturers are pushing differing digital systems - some that completely hog their frequencies. Got interference? You have to go digital yourself.

The recurring revenue stream in trunking comes from periodic technology refreshes (got to have new firmware because we're not going to support your old firmware anymore). Then it was protocol (we're not supporting analog trunking, you have to go to digital). Then, subscriber equipment won't be produced that's compatible to your system, so it all needs to be upgraded. But what a better cash scheme than to have to do a wholesale replacement of technology from stem to stern? And, make it a subscription service with consumer-grade devices with maybe a rubberized case so it could be sold at public safety prices?

Government goes along with it because: 1) decision makers are clueless; 2) they are looking for their six-figure job after public service; 3) commerce is generally good and there is little of it when things aren't being bought.

The problem is that public safety enterprise DOES NOT know what needs to be done. They don't get involved in committees or communicate their needs effectively. They abdicate their interests to manufacturers who will promote things they probably don't need.
 

tomk62

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Anything you buy right now is going to be quickly outdated, as the system is slated to be Phase-II TDMA when complete, and the only thing that will do that right now is the GRE PSR-800.

Thanks Scott. How quickly, and do you recommend the PSR-800?
 

tomk62

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Ok ... So according to my contact at OEM ...

"The Somerset County UHF trunking system
is currently operating in two different modes. All
fire and rescue departments still operate on
wide band/analog since the FCC gave a waiver
last summer for operations in the T band which
is above 470 mhz and where we operate. Some
of the County functions (such as Sheriff and Prosectuor)
have switched over to the narrowbanded digital platform,
and new law enforcement agencies which migrate
to the TRS will probably follow suit. Most available
trunking scanners should be able to handle both
of these systems.

TDMA is a new technology which meets the spirt
6.25 khz bandwidth (half of the normal narrowband).
I don't see TDMA on UHF in Somerset County anytime
in the near very future. We are however starting to prepare
some migratiion of new users to 700mhz and that could
well be 6.25 bandwidth using TDMA within two
years, however I don't see fire and ems using
that platform for the foreseable future."
 

KC2ZHY

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I have been getting a lot of hits for TGID D5F (3423) on the P25 TRS; this would have equated to 54768 on the SmartZone system, but that entry on the database is null. I'm getting no audio recordings, so I'm going to assume it's encrypted.

Anybody have an idea of what this talkgroup is?? It falls in line with the digital PD channels on the SmartZone, so I'd assume it's another tactical PD / OEM channel of some sort.
 

robbinsj2

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I had noticed encrypted communications on 54768 before, by prosecutor radios. I just flipped Unitrunker over and it also shows the 3423 communications as protected (encrypted) and the radio IDs I see there are the in the same prosecutor radio ID range as on the Motorola system.

Jim
 

KC2ZHY

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I had noticed encrypted communications on 54768 before, by prosecutor radios. I just flipped Unitrunker over and it also shows the 3423 communications as protected (encrypted) and the radio IDs I see there are the in the same prosecutor radio ID range as on the Motorola system.

Jim

Yeah, I just came to that conclusion as well. Thanks!
 

robbinsj2

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... All fire and rescue departments still operate on wide band/analog ...

I don't doubt your source said and believes this but is it 100% true?

After several calls for 79-Rescue (and maybe 74-Rescue too, I don't remember them as positively) a couple weeks ago I heard not a peep from them on the analog zone, nor saw more than one or two affiliations there on Unitrunker during the hour following the page-out. Occasionally since then I have been trying to catch them on the P25 zone but my timing hasn't worked out yet (complicated by my frequently poor reception of the P25 zone).

Can anyone confirm my suspicion as right or wrong?

Jim
 

W2SJW

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I'll keep an eye on this the next 2 or 3 days with the coming storm - you made me question the exact same lack of traffic last night when I read this...
 

tomk62

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I am checking with a 74 rescue contact. I have the EMS talk groups skipped in my 800 so I have not been monitoring them.
 

robbinsj2

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For 20-minutes after a call this afternoon I didn't hear 79 on Zone 1 and saw no corresponding activity on Zone 3 through Unitrunker. I was getting only 20-80% decoding which, I would think, would have shown something so now I'm wondering if they're somewhere else.

I'm sometimes pushing the limits of reception but will try checking other conventional and trunked channels for them.
 

tomk62

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The chief of 74 rescue has confirmed they are still on analog with no plans to move. I will be monitoring for 79 today.
 

W2SJW

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I was monitoring an ALS call in Hillsborough just 10 minutes ago, and 79-1 came up on Hillsborough PD 1, so I'm at a loss why I haven't heard any of their 'tactical' comms on the TRS via EMS OPS 3 in a long time...
 

robbinsj2

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Did you hear them calling county on Region 2; is it only EMS Ops-3 which they are missing from? Was the call to 841 of a dispatch nature or just coordination?

As I recall, 79 was pretty chatty on Ops-3 and, before that, their predecessor VHF channel. Maybe they have just tightened town and/or reorganized so that much of that coordination isn't necessary any longer (crews in quarters; duty/coverage tightly defined, etc.).

I have logged hits on a few new talkgroups, including 14604, but very few or no transmissions on all of them and not from radio IDs which seem to belong to 79.
 

W2SJW

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I've never heard them on Region 2 - the only TRS activity I ever remember out of them was coordination for multi-incidents, big fires, hurricanes/snowstorms, etc on OPS 3.
 

emt036

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I've never heard them on Region 2 - the only TRS activity I ever remember out of them was coordination for multi-incidents, big fires, hurricanes/snowstorms, etc on OPS 3.

79 did use Region 2 to communicate with County re: ALS (i.e. requesting when not initially dispatched or canceling), or when going mutual aid into an adjoining jurisdiction dispatched by County, but that's about it.

-Former 47-C3
 

W2SJW

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OK, I was just reading the Somerset County Communications 2012 annual report. The very last section had these tidbits as part of the '2013 Goals':

 Upgrading our current 7.9 Motorola software to 7.13.

 Purchasing of a Somerset County 700 MHz radio system for public safety services.

 Continuing the programming of county-owned radios on the state PSIC 700 radio system.
 

W2SJW

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Guys,

I just caught some previously-unheard traffic on the P25 via TGID 735. That converts to 11760, and it's not in the database (although it closely matches one county would be using).

After further examination, it appears to be public-works related traffic in Montgomery (referenced salting at Montfort & Rt. 206). I know County Roads are on the PSIC, but I had no idea Montgomery had their DPW on the TRS,,,
 
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