Stay with Kenwood or go with Motorola (amateur radio use)

[fontanei]

Non Commercial use!!!

**** Need advice as to whether to stay with Kenwood EF Johnson or go with Motorola for future radio purchases ****

Problem: I've an NX-5300 F6, three NX-5800, and an NX-5700 (can program these myself since I've the KPG-D1). I want an VP8000 and an VM800 (which I can easily get); however, I don't want to go through the hassle of getting my laptop set up to program the VP8000 or VM8000 since I've heard it is harder than setting up KPG-D1 and have to deal with yearly armada sw subscriptions (or so I think).

I was able to establish an Motorola Solutions account (customer hub) for amateur radio use. Just the fact that they will give me the sw I need hassle free, including fw, has made me rethink the whole thing about staying with Kenwood.

Can anyone advise on the process for acquiring armada sw for my own personal use?

Please.

 

[tweiss3]

The Armada software is only subscription based if you want to continue to get updates, if you want one time purchases, you can from your dealer. I chose the 5-years of updates because development and features are still being released for the VP/VM 8000 radios.

Programming is much easier than D1N, and the software is quicker in every way. You can copy your zones out of D1N into excel, then copy from excel into the zone table and save tons of time (still time involved).

Keep in mind, the VP/VM radios are a "buy what you need" for features, and it adds up quickly. Each band costs money and each mode is about $500 list. As opposed to buying a remote deck from a dealer, you are looking to invest more money into the VP8000.

Also keep in mind, while Moto lets you get the software, they may require a subscription to apply firmware updates, and don't do multiple modes in a single radio (P25 + DMR + NXDN). Also, if you compare your configured VP8000 to an "identically" configured APX radio, expect to pay almost double, if not more for the APX.

This is my experience as a low volume personal use buyer/user. It was worth it for me to buy the VP8000 and carry a single radio.

 

[cavmedic]

Armada is so much easier, costs less then the comparable Motorola. Want to do DMR and NXDN, because you cant do that in the same radio with P25 in a Motorola. Not only do I use VP's for two of the systems I work in , I also have a personal 8K and Ill never go back.

 

[DeoVindice]

Armada is probably the easiest modern CPS to install and use, there is no hassle. You'll just need to purchase it from a dealer.

 

[KE4ZNR]

Purchasing an APX for ham use is like purchasing a Lamborghini to only drive through 25MPH school zones. I have used both CPS & Armada and both have their quirks. Just remember that no radio is perfect and every model has its pluses and minuses.

 

[pewpew45]

I'll second what everyone has said thus far. I have an apx8000 but bought a VP8000. The software and radio is way easier to navigate and use. Having the ability to do analog, p25 and dmr on the same radio in the same zones is a huge benefit.

 

[n7maq-1]

I would personally would go with the Viking.

 

[KD9RTX]

Viking hands down, if only because of Armada. I just installed an NX-5700/5800 dual deck in my truck and those are likely the only Kenwood digital radios I will ever buy because of the turd that is D1N.

 

[KevinC]

My answer would be go with whatever has the features you seek. Don’t buy a brand (be it MSI/Kenwood/Harris/whatever) just for the name.

 

[mmckenna]

Problem: I've an NX-5300 F6, three NX-5800, and an NX-5700 (can program these myself since I've the KPG-D1). I want an VP8000 and an VM800 (which I can easily get); however, I don't want to go through the hassle of getting my laptop set up to program the VP8000 or VM8000 since I've heard it is harder than setting up KPG-D1 and have to deal with yearly armada sw subscriptions (or so I think).

Doesn't sound like a problem to me. There is a big cost difference between an APX-8000/8500 and a VM/VP-8000. The cost savings on the radios alone would far, far offset the cost of the Armada software.

Unless you are someone that just has to have the brand name, I think this is a no-brainer. Motorola makes nice stuff, but so do many others. Far more capability in the VM/VP-8000's than you'll ever see from Motorola.

Can anyone advise on the process for acquiring armada sw for my own personal use?

Talk to the dealer you are buying the radios from, and have them roll it into the cost of the radios.

Also, remember that Armada does a number of different radio models, not just the VM/VP-8000.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

The trouble with the NX line, each series or radios requires it's own software suite. The NX-5000's require D1N, the NX-3000's require D3N, etc. Not to mention there is the hassle with licensing (what happens if your computer gives up the ghost). Armada on the other hand, if for the entire Viking radio lineup (Vx600/Vx900/Vx5000/Vx6000/VM7000/Vx8000) and once you have access to the software, you can install it on as many computers as you want, reinstall it etc. So from that perspective, it's much more akin to APX CPS (even back when you had to have a subscription for APX CPS) in that it covers the entire line. Another big win for Armada over D1N (besides the fact D1N was written by a 3rd party contractor in Japan that has since closed shop) is that it uses RDNIS like everyone but Kenwood (still using serial in 2025) to communicate with the radio. Armada takes that a step further than others though and allows you to simultaniously read/write multiple radios at once. While you can do this with an APX…it has to be done through Radio Management. The one thing Motorola has on EFJ for programming…Radio Management has 100 free licenses (radios) where Armada Server (if you install it) only has 20.

What do I use personally?

I have a mix of VP600's, VP900's, VM600's, VM900's a VP6000 and an "on permanent loan" VP8000 in addition to a V/7/8 APX7000, V/7/8 APX7500 and U/7/8 APX7000. I don't have DMR or NXDN in the VP8000 and don't really care to have it.

So if you were to force me to choose between a VP8000 and APX8000…I would go BKR-9000 as it feel's better in the hand, can be setup for RX only Trunking without a system key, and has a larger main display than either the VP8 or APX8. Actually the larger display of the APX7 is what kept me using them until EOS just recently professionally.

As far as mobiles go…I'm torn between the APX7500 with an O3 and my Astro Siren and my VM900 in my personal vehicles. If I were buying new, I wouldn't hesitate with a VM8000 with either control head. Now if BK gets their multiband mobile out in the near future…I'm going to have a lot of thinking to be doing.

 

[kayn1n32008]

Non Commercial use!!!

**** Need advice as to whether to stay with Kenwood EF Johnson or go with Motorola for future radio purchases ****

Problem: I've an NX-5300 F6, three NX-5800, and an NX-5700 (can program these myself since I've the KPG-D1). I want an VP8000 and an VM800 (which I can easily get); however, I don't want to go through the hassle of getting my laptop set up to program the VP8000 or VM8000 since I've heard it is harder than setting up KPG-D1 and have to deal with yearly armada sw subscriptions (or so I think).

I was able to establish an Motorola Solutions account (customer hub) for amateur radio use. Just the fact that they will give me the sw I need hassle free, including fw, has made me rethink the whole thing about staying with Kenwood.

Can anyone advise on the process for acquiring armada sw for my own personal use?

Please.

I currently use Motorola radios. I have used all kinds over the years, and if I had the opportunity to get both a VM8000 and a VP8000, I would in a heart beat.

To be able to have DMR and P25 in a single radio? Multiple RID? Hardware AES? software and firmware engineers that actually listen to their customers? I can confidently say, for amateur use only, tye VP/VM is a far better product than the APX8000/8500. Armada is is light years ahead of APX family CPS.

Now for the low band guys, if you could get a VM7630(I think) VHF-Lo to mate with the VM8000, I'm sure hams would love it.

I do love the older Motorola radios, and love their audio, but to have to choose APX over EFWood for ham radio? Not even a question. EFWood all the way

 

[kayn1n32008]

Non Commercial use!!!

**** Need advice as to whether to stay with Kenwood EF Johnson or go with Motorola for future radio purchases ****

I was able to establish an Motorola Solutions account (customer hub) for amateur radio use. Just the fact that they will give me the sw I need hassle free, including fw, has made me rethink the whole thing about staying with Kenwood.

Not. Worth. The. Hassel. That is Motorola Solutions.

If you have a problem with your Motorola, MSI will care about you as much as they do for a agency that has 100 radios. As in not at all. Find a firmware bug? Good luck. Lol, 'works as designed'

 

[YL3IM]

Armada on the other hand...

Does Armada work in virtual machines like VirtualBox? Motorola software works well, Kenwood CPS is known to explicitly refuse to run in virtualized environments.

 

[otobmark]

Program works fine in Parallels on my M4 mac. The USB interface does not (no cable programming). There is no proper driver. BlueTooth programming does not either. My old Mac with intel processor USB worked fine. I use wifi programming on M4 which works fine, even for firmware flashing etc. I had to use my PC to set up VP8000 for wifi programming first and then I was good to go on M4 (apple silicon) ever after. You put mac and radio on the same wifi network, NO vpn or firewall madness. I have used a phone hotspot for network before also. You should always have access to a PC even if MAC is your day to day. If I’m traveling light and worry about MAC problems I just carry a memory stick with Armada and data so I can use any PC I can find.

 

[kd4efm]

Just to add to the discussion: The NX-5600HBF (supporting NXDN and Analog) currently performs well in the 50–54 MHz range. So yes, Kenwood—or “EFWood,” as some call it—is bringing low-band back, and that’s perfectly fine.

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Software Perspective​

KPG-D(whatever) really needs a refresh. I use it because I have to, but honestly, Armada feels far ahead of the curve. Now that NXDN is officially on the roadmap, what’s next? Ideally, we should see Push-to-Talk over Cellular (PoC) capabilities integrated for large-scale interoperability scenarios. This is what ISSI should look like—seamless connectivity between neighboring agencies. But ISSI itself needs a reboot too. It should handle PoC, NXDN, DMR, P25, and analog without relying on endless patching just to get communication from point A to point Z. That’s thinking outside the box, but it’s where the industry needs to go.

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Land Mobile Radio: A Ticking Clock?​

When will private LMR fade away? When will public safety LMR evolve into something wearable—an APX-Watch, EFJ Viking Watch, or even a futuristic tablet where you swipe to share data? (Yes, that’s a Starke Enterprises jab.)
History tells the story:

• 1970s–1980s: IMTS UHF systems dominated.
• 1980s: AMPS cellular emerged (remember GTE MobileNet and the A/B carrier systems?).
• 2025: Starlink enables texting when terrestrial carriers fail. Who’s grabbing an HF radio to reach civilization when smartphones already do the job? Honestly, Star Trek-style communicators are closer than ever to becoming the next PoC radios. IoT is already here—we just need smaller, smarter devices. Micro-cell poles are popping up everywhere, and FirstNet, T-Mobile, and others are building denser LTE coverage than what $2,000–$3,000 monthly tower leases provide for legacy systems.

---

What’s Here to Stay​

Amateur Radio isn’t going anywhere. It’s evolving with modern tech, but LF through GHz will outlast us all. (We need more youth involved—just my two cents.)

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Final Thoughts​

The Viking series is making waves—late to the party, but leaving a footprint. The NX Series fits well for mixed industries, even though some swear by DMR. Personally, I appreciate what NXDN offers. For example, I’ve yet to see keyboard-to-keyboard messaging over DMR, but NXDN, Yeah I did that back in 2014–2015 using D-Rats at 4800 and 9600 baud on a NX-700 and NX-800. I can still take my 5600, switch to data mode, and move files with D-Rats if needed.
Has anyone tried similar data transfer with P25? I know there’s some IP-like capability, but I haven’t seen major adoption for keyboard-to-keyboard messaging like the old AX.25 days. Honestly, I miss my PK232—I’d love to hook it up to NXDN low-band and see what happens. (Just for fun!)

Love seeing some of your responses, keep it up.
Me, I love my NX radio cache, but won't hesitate to get a Viking to my list of radios for my personal use.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

Just to add to the discussion: The NX-5600HBF (supporting NXDN and Analog) currently performs well in the 50–54 MHz range. So yes, Kenwood—or “EFWood,” as some call it—is bringing low-band back, and that’s perfectly fine.

---

Software Perspective​

KPG-D(whatever) really needs a refresh. I use it because I have to, but honestly, Armada feels far ahead of the curve. Now that NXDN is officially on the roadmap, what’s next? Ideally, we should see Push-to-Talk over Cellular (PoC) capabilities integrated for large-scale interoperability scenarios. This is what ISSI should look like—seamless connectivity between neighboring agencies. But ISSI itself needs a reboot too. It should handle PoC, NXDN, DMR, P25, and analog without relying on endless patching just to get communication from point A to point Z. That’s thinking outside the box, but it’s where the industry needs to go.

---

Land Mobile Radio: A Ticking Clock?​

When will private LMR fade away? When will public safety LMR evolve into something wearable—an APX-Watch, EFJ Viking Watch, or even a futuristic tablet where you swipe to share data? (Yes, that’s a Starke Enterprises jab.)
History tells the story:

• 1970s–1980s: IMTS UHF systems dominated.
• 1980s: AMPS cellular emerged (remember GTE MobileNet and the A/B carrier systems?).
• 2025: Starlink enables texting when terrestrial carriers fail. Who’s grabbing an HF radio to reach civilization when smartphones already do the job? Honestly, Star Trek-style communicators are closer than ever to becoming the next PoC radios. IoT is already here—we just need smaller, smarter devices. Micro-cell poles are popping up everywhere, and FirstNet, T-Mobile, and others are building denser LTE coverage than what $2,000–$3,000 monthly tower leases provide for legacy systems.

---

What’s Here to Stay​

Amateur Radio isn’t going anywhere. It’s evolving with modern tech, but LF through GHz will outlast us all. (We need more youth involved—just my two cents.)

---

Final Thoughts​

The Viking series is making waves—late to the party, but leaving a footprint. The NX Series fits well for mixed industries, even though some swear by DMR. Personally, I appreciate what NXDN offers. For example, I’ve yet to see keyboard-to-keyboard messaging over DMR, but NXDN, Yeah I did that back in 2014–2015 using D-Rats at 4800 and 9600 baud on a NX-700 and NX-800. I can still take my 5600, switch to data mode, and move files with D-Rats if needed.
Has anyone tried similar data transfer with P25? I know there’s some IP-like capability, but I haven’t seen major adoption for keyboard-to-keyboard messaging like the old AX.25 days. Honestly, I miss my PK232—I’d love to hook it up to NXDN low-band and see what happens. (Just for fun!)

Love seeing some of your responses, keep it up.
Me, I love my NX radio cache, but won't hesitate to get a Viking to my list of radios for my personal use.

Motorola TRBO radios have supported messaging since the first generation XPR and very early on there were applications to allow full keyboard to keyboard messaging via USB interface of a computer. Actually HOTSAU5 and other applications were also capable of managing that as well.

More importantly, yes a VM8000 can be multi-decked with four additional decks. Low band, VHF, UHF, 7/800 or even another VM8000 deck.

 

[MTS2000des]

Everything Evan's said is spot on. I too think big buck LMR is approaching a "last call at the bar" scenario, 10 years from now, I would not be surprised if today's big buck multi-band LMR subs are e-waste and on Ebay for what XTS3000s are today and in copious numbers. The challenge is how many will be locked down with proprietary software that will be NLA or some former owner uses an ASK and tosses them just cause. Amateur radio will still be here, and hopefully manufacturers like Icom and Yaesu, who are heavily invested in the amateur marketplaces, will be too.

Not to say shy away from LMR, if one has a need or a want for P25, NXDN, DMR, et al (especially all in one sub which ONLY the VP8000 can do all three) then bust out a thousand or three- but understand that just like today's iPhone 17 is a $1400 toy, in 5 years they will be a $300 item on Amazon the same maybe true for big ticket LMR radios.

The downside to MotoTRBO subscribers is getting aftermarket support. With even firmware updates locked to a warranty and/or agreement, you are SOL down the road if you want to add anything after the sale as an end user. I'd avoid them and go with some other DMR vendor or an AnyTone 878 for ham use.

 

[buddrousa]

Years ago Amateur Radio was where the experimental RF was worked on and Commercial Radio was improved from what was learned in the Amateur Sector. Today Amateur Radio is using what was designed and proven from the Commercial Sector (P25, NXDN and DMR).

 

[kd4efm]

Motorola TRBO radios have supported messaging since the first generation XPR and very early on there were applications to allow full keyboard to keyboard messaging via USB interface of a computer. Actually HOTSAU5 and other applications were also capable of managing that as well.

Hotsauce was done for the hospitality industry, so yes, I've known about that, but was trying to steer this in the amateur sense.
D-Star and D-Rats was the amateur version, rightfully saying i can use it on NXDN with transparent data mode.

My Contributions to Advancing Amateur Radio​

I’m not looking for recognition, but I’ve always strived to stay at the forefront of amateur radio by embracing new technologies and approaches that make the hobby more engaging and innovative.
Repeater-Link (1996)
One of the first internet-connected analog linking systems in Florida—built using a GM300 and a breakout board. This was among the earliest efforts to integrate internet connectivity with analog repeaters.
IRLP & EchoLink
Implemented two of the first IRLP nodes in Florida, including IRLP 4156. Also operated EchoLink node #1054, helping expand digital connectivity for amateur operators.
D-Star (2000–2001)
Participated in deploying the first full D-Star stack in the Southeast (with the help of others). Actively supported remote deployment of D-Star nodes across the U.S., contributing to early adoption and growth of the technology.
NXDN (2012)
Co-developed the first known amateur radio internet-linked, interstate NXDN-based repeater system in Florida, connecting Lakeland, FL (KD4EFM/R) to Bristol, CT with Cliff K1IFF. This effort laid the foundation for today’s NXDN networks. Grateful to the developers behind NXCore and MMDVM for advancing the vision. nxdninfo.com
P25
While not directly involved, I’ve closely followed P25 developments and have great respect for those driving innovation in this area.
DMR Bridging
Learned about early DMR bridging from John Rayfield Sr. and Jr., which evolved into DMR-MARC and later came along BrandMeister. While I focused on NXDN, I occasionally explore DMR for perspective.
Fusion (C4FM)
Acknowledged as another digital mode, though it hasn’t captured my interest yet—every operator has their preference.

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Amateur radio continues to be a passion of mine, and I’m grateful to everyone who contributes to its growth and evolution. 73!