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LTE is the future with LMR as a backup. Moto and Harris see it too and are pushing their IP based solutions.
The Official Thread: Live audio feeds, scanners, and... wait for it.. ENCRYPTION!
- Thread starter blantonl
- Start date
LTE is the future with LMR as a backup. Moto and Harris see it too and are pushing their IP based solutions.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Yes, getting harder and harder to find top tier 'public safety grade' radios that don't have LTE capability. LMR will become an overlay system that will take over when the LTE network is unavailable.
There just too many good technology solutions out there right now, and restraining LMR traffic in 1940's technology just doesn't make sense anymore.
Yeah it’s called freedom of information. You still don’t have the right to listen to their radio communications regardless of what rights you believe you may have.
spencerwww
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Yes they do its right ur not for clients usiution u don't know what ur talking about
Actually, there are exceptions to HIPAA (Health Insurance Portability and Acountability Act-not HIPPA) regarding radio transmissions. HIPAA allows for transmission of PHI as long as the transmission is kept to the minimum amount of PHI exposure to adequately allow responding crews to perform their duties.
With regard to the Ambulance to Hospital traffic, there shouldn't be any PHI exposure. A proper entry notification/medical control consult should not contain any HIPAA protected information. Age, sex, chief complaint, SAMPLE, vitals, treatment, response to treatment and ETA-that's all that should be in there. There is nothing that is able to identify an individual without more information, hence it is not a HIPAA exposure. I have been lecturing on HIPAA since 2003 at the college level and it still amazes me how much people don't understand it or try to make it fit whatever mold supports their argument.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Can you translate that into English for us in the back row?
spencerwww
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McKenna ur what in cost guard got family.in bigger.roles.then u im.for.freedom.of.enncrpion I hate see it tak.over why except fire bull shkt.peoplel.or.tired.of.big goverment
spencerwww
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All.coommoms should be open because I payed.6 60 for.scanner and.i wo t do nothing bad should leave it for.peoople who buy scanner and get rid online eit.male.lot.more sense i.stead of banning
For those needing help I have worked among folks in the hood so maybe I can Decode or unscramble for you along with my sugar bear cereal decoder ring:
1. "McKenna ur what in cost guard got family.in bigger.roles.then u im.for.freedom.of.enncrpion I hate see it tak.over why except fire bull shkt.peoplel.or.tired.of.big goverment"
=
1. MmcKenna, you're in the coast guard? I have family in bigger roles than you. I am for freedom of communications being in the clear. I would hate to see encryption take over, specially in fire communications. It is bull$/// and people tired are of big government.
Break break 2 part message:
2. "All.coommoms should be open because I payed.6 60 for.scanner and.i wo t do nothing bad should leave it for.peoople who buy scanner and get rid online eit.male.lot.more sense i.stead of banning"
=
2. All communications should be unencrypted because I paid over 660 dollars for a scanner. I will not be doing any illegal activity listening. Encryption should be left off for people who buy scanners and the online streaming removed which makes more sense than Encrypting it all.
End decoding.
1. "McKenna ur what in cost guard got family.in bigger.roles.then u im.for.freedom.of.enncrpion I hate see it tak.over why except fire bull shkt.peoplel.or.tired.of.big goverment"
=
1. MmcKenna, you're in the coast guard? I have family in bigger roles than you. I am for freedom of communications being in the clear. I would hate to see encryption take over, specially in fire communications. It is bull$/// and people tired are of big government.
Break break 2 part message:
2. "All.coommoms should be open because I payed.6 60 for.scanner and.i wo t do nothing bad should leave it for.peoople who buy scanner and get rid online eit.male.lot.more sense i.stead of banning"
=
2. All communications should be unencrypted because I paid over 660 dollars for a scanner. I will not be doing any illegal activity listening. Encryption should be left off for people who buy scanners and the online streaming removed which makes more sense than Encrypting it all.
End decoding.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
OK.
I can understand the frustration of spending that kind of money on a scanner and then a department you want to listen to going encrypted.
But look at it from the agencies point of view:
- They don't know who you are.
- Anyone with the money can buy a scanner that will receive the radio traffic.
- They have no idea what someone is going to do with that information.
Online streaming doesn't fix the issue, and it likely doesn't make it worse. Agencies are required to protect some of the information they handle, wether it's on a server, on a print out, or sent over the radio. They have no idea who's listening in and what someone may do with that information.
I'm concerned about the future of our hobby.
Please, hear me out for the compromise.
With more departments going dark by the day (encrypting), many are citing concerns that teenagers are simply able to "pull out their smartphone and hear the cops coming" (Nashville police to encrypt radio communications, block scanners (tennessean.com). More dispatch feeds/talkgroups are coming online, allowing anyone with a phone to know when it's time to "wrap up" a burglary, or that it's time to turn down the music. While most don't buy the officer safety bit (considering marked cruisers are a thing), the growing concerns of teenagers using their phones to stream the local PD while committing crimes is definitely a legitimate concern.
Rather than self-sabotage and force our beloved hobby into extinction while giving lowlife thieves an advantage, would it be reasonable to INSIST (or implement server-side) all feeds having a HEAVILY ADVERTISED minimum delay of several minutes (not just the 30 seconds inherent to transcoding) to get ahead of the curve while also NOT allowing criminals to use the Broadcastify service to their advantage? While some departments have made up their minds to encrypt either way, it may take the pressure off of the rapid pace of which encrypting _everything_ has moved. Delayed information is borderline useless to criminals (and may even lead to many getting caught thinking they're ahead of the cops), and the common regurgitation often stated by the cops (officer safety and criminal advantage) will no longer be founded. While some may argue that it's going to happen either-way, more often than not, I'm seeing departments mention online streaming as their number one concern.
To the CEO of Broadcastify, feed providers, and all other fellow enthusiasts of this hobby, please consider a delay to slow the rate of encryption while promoting transparency, otherwise the well will dry up, and encrypted EVERYTHING public-safety wise will be the future, or rather the death, of the scanner. We know some public safety organizations are on board with a form of this ( Chicago Police Department Moving Dispatch Traffic to Encrypted System | Chicago News | WTTW ), so why not get ahead of the curve?
Please, hear me out for the compromise.
With more departments going dark by the day (encrypting), many are citing concerns that teenagers are simply able to "pull out their smartphone and hear the cops coming" (Nashville police to encrypt radio communications, block scanners (tennessean.com). More dispatch feeds/talkgroups are coming online, allowing anyone with a phone to know when it's time to "wrap up" a burglary, or that it's time to turn down the music. While most don't buy the officer safety bit (considering marked cruisers are a thing), the growing concerns of teenagers using their phones to stream the local PD while committing crimes is definitely a legitimate concern.
Rather than self-sabotage and force our beloved hobby into extinction while giving lowlife thieves an advantage, would it be reasonable to INSIST (or implement server-side) all feeds having a HEAVILY ADVERTISED minimum delay of several minutes (not just the 30 seconds inherent to transcoding) to get ahead of the curve while also NOT allowing criminals to use the Broadcastify service to their advantage? While some departments have made up their minds to encrypt either way, it may take the pressure off of the rapid pace of which encrypting _everything_ has moved. Delayed information is borderline useless to criminals (and may even lead to many getting caught thinking they're ahead of the cops), and the common regurgitation often stated by the cops (officer safety and criminal advantage) will no longer be founded. While some may argue that it's going to happen either-way, more often than not, I'm seeing departments mention online streaming as their number one concern.
To the CEO of Broadcastify, feed providers, and all other fellow enthusiasts of this hobby, please consider a delay to slow the rate of encryption while promoting transparency, otherwise the well will dry up, and encrypted EVERYTHING public-safety wise will be the future, or rather the death, of the scanner. We know some public safety organizations are on board with a form of this ( Chicago Police Department Moving Dispatch Traffic to Encrypted System | Chicago News | WTTW ), so why not get ahead of the curve?
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You need to understand it goes beyond that. Think marketing and contracts to selling a product with security. The feesd issue is one of dozen and moot at this point. Not everyone is choosing to do so. But many are and I can promise you even if the feeds didn't exist a catchy dealer making sales to a agency will lock them into contract and keeping a income having radios rekeyed or keyed. It's a dead horse you'll never win.
I suppose, but it's ammunition for the salesforce to use "Look, here's your feed here. I can just pull it up here on the free 5-0 Radio App anddd ... you hear that? It's your dispatcher in the other room". It's a lot easier to scare those in charge when all it takes is an unskilled adversary with a budget/hand-me-down smartphone in their pocket rather than someone at least competent enough to either load/configure GnuRadio/RTLSDR on a Raspberry Pi and a battery pack or lugging around a multi-hundred dollar scanner, wouldn't you agree?
I'm not saying it will stop the other 10? 11? reasons you mentioned are out there, but it may at least slow the pace of it down especially when costs/urgency for the upgrades are being considered. There are MANY departments citing online streaming as their primary concern, and it's easy to convince a budget committee how urgent the need is when it's so trivial to do ("just download an app and viola, you're ahead of the cops!" *horrified gasps to follow*).
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wtp
Member
i just want a delay, so that if i hear sirens, i can go inside and hear the 'dispatch'.
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The CEO of Radio Reference/ Broadcastify has responded to many discussions about this in previous threads. Have a read through some of them here:
Search results for query: Feed delay
I have thought about this also. I will say a huge part of encryption is product sales. When radio systems are being upgraded, millions are being spent and encrypting is just another checkbox especially when its just tax money budgeted 5 years out or so. The last couple of years didn't help things either. A lot of departments have encryption but only on alt dispatch or Tac channels. It is nice to have an unrestricted channel in case something gets off with the keys. A few departments would switch to them for certain periods during the lovely summer.
One way I was thinking is that it would be cool if you could put the encryption keys in scanners and have register with the department also agreeing not to publicly stream.
Oh well.. just dreaming. I doubt criminals actually use them though. Cops has been on for years as a guide of how to not get caught and criminals still can't make it through a traffic stop.
One way I was thinking is that it would be cool if you could put the encryption keys in scanners and have register with the department also agreeing not to publicly stream.
Oh well.. just dreaming. I doubt criminals actually use them though. Cops has been on for years as a guide of how to not get caught and criminals still can't make it through a traffic stop.
Iv'e been in EMS and a FF 2 for about 10 years. I am 100% against encryption! Locally today I heard another fire company respond and get RECALLED by PD, then PD called them back in for a thermal camera scan because they messed up! Fire Chief responded to county "If we could only hear them and we could talk back to them like we could before we wish they would just let us do our jobs. Our entire county PD departments went encrypted with PA P25 StatNet the PA State police use. The officers complain about the new 10 MILLION dollar system because with encryption they can't transmit outside of a concrete building, and when they go unencrypted to test the radios work great.
hitechRadio
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Sounds like the FD needs to get encryption in their radio's if they want to listen/scan PD. But other than that, that is what dispatch is for.
And there is no difference in coverage on a P25 system when encrypted or not. Maybe on a MOTRBO system, that was an issue with ADP. But was never an issue on P25.
Encryption does nothing what so ever for reception. Your radio signal / strength won’t deviate one little bit just because it’s encrypted.
You 100% sure about that, how does the system adjust if a key header is errored out? lets say we have an officer shot or a firefighter down and he has one chance to transmit in an emergency situation, to get one word out, are you 150% sure it would make it? would you 150% trust YOUR life to that situation?
I mean even Motorola cant make firmware properly at this point
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