TierIII Motorola System

[konca]

With DSD+ and FMPP, I receive the following data on these frequencies. Can someone explain to me what it is? Or what type of system am I receiving, and how can I listen to it, if possible?

follow the data below:
468.075 - TIII(MOT) - Site: 1-16 - NL: 14 15
468.100 - TIII(nonstd) - Site: 1-15 - NL: 14 16 - Alg=EP/RC4 KeyID=5
468.225 - TIII(nonstd) - Site: 1-14 - Alg=EP/RC4 KeyID=5
468.251 - TIII(nonstd) - Site: 1-15 - RAS
468.274 - TIII(nonstd) - Site: 1-16 - NL: 14 15 - RAS
468.300 - TIII(nonstd) - Site: 1-15 - RAS
468.325 - TIII(nonstd) - Site: 1-15 - RAS
468.350 - TIII(MOT) - Site: 1-15 - RAS
468.475 - TIII(nonstd) - Site: 1-14 - NL: 15 16 - RAS
468.497 - TIII(nonstd) - Site: 1-15 - NL: 14 16 - RAS
468.522 - TIII(nonstd) - Site: 1-16 - NL: 14 15 - RAS

Thanks for anyone help me!

 

[IU0LFT]

TIII(MOT) and TIII(nonstd) means (from DSDFastlane Notes.txt)
All "TIII" support has been excised from DSD+. The program now red-flags
any data file entry that has "TIII" as the protocol string.
No DMR system/site will be reported as "TIII".

When a TIII site is monitored, DSD+ will make a determination as to whether
a system is following the TIII standards. Most systems follow the standards and
DSD+ will display the system type as "TIIIStd (Auto)".

For Motorola CapMAX systems, which do not follow the TIII standards,
DSD+ will display the system type as "TIIInonStd (Auto)".

The "(Auto)" notation shows that DSD+ has automatically made the system type classification.

For non-standard TIII systems that DSD+ does not correctly classify,
such as those made by Selex ES, the DSD+ Control menu provides a mechanism
to force the system type to "TIIInonStd", or back to "TIIIStd", if desired.

Site x-xx is where you are located and NL x.xx shows the Neighbour site

RAS the radio is encrypted

Alg=EP/RC4 KeyID=5 radio is using EP/RC4 as encryption system and the key for encrypt the communication is the number 5 from the ones stored on radio

Giuseppe

 

[konca]

But can I listen to radios in any way? Could the difference between frequencies refer to a specific type of radio system?

 

[IU0LFT]

Look like all the site are in the same cluster ( same organization?? )
No, communication is Encrypted no way to listen :-(

 

[cg]

Not enough info provided to figure out the files but I made some samples below.

At the beginning of each of the Network, Sites, Frequencies, Groups and Radios files is text with help and examples for entering in info to each file.

The program needs to sit on a control channel (CC) which is a constant signal. 468.0750 and 468.3500 look like they may be CCs so tune FMPP to one of those.
You then let it run and look at the windows that pop up with info. You need to note the system ID and the Channel Numbers of the neighbors. Put that channel info into the Frequencies file (shown as ?? in the example below)
You then need to figure out the channels numbers for the voice channels

You need to populate the various files, Network, Sites, & Frequencies
Network would be something like L1 but could be T (tiny), S (small) L (large) or H (huge). For example:
TIIInonStd, H1, "Brazil electric company"
Site example would be:
TIIInonStd, H1, 15, "North site"
TIIInonStd, H1, 16, "West Site"
Frequencies example would be
TIIInonStd, H1, 15, ??, 468.3500, 0.0, 0

 

[konca]

Not enough info provided to figure out the files but I made some samples below.

At the beginning of each of the Network, Sites, Frequencies, Groups and Radios files is text with help and examples for entering in info to each file.

The program needs to sit on a control channel (CC) which is a constant signal. 468.0750 and 468.3500 look like they may be CCs so tune FMPP to one of those.
You then let it run and look at the windows that pop up with info. You need to note the system ID and the Channel Numbers of the neighbors. Put that channel info into the Frequencies file (shown as ?? in the example below)
You then need to figure out the channels numbers for the voice channels

You need to populate the various files, Network, Sites, & Frequencies
Network would be something like L1 but could be T (tiny), S (small) L (large) or H (huge). For example:
TIIInonStd, H1, "Brazil electric company"
Site example would be:
TIIInonStd, H1, 15, "North site"
TIIInonStd, H1, 16, "West Site"
Frequencies example would be
TIIInonStd, H1, 15, ??, 468.3500, 0.0, 0

Can i print the screenshot and you help me?

 

[TheButcher]

"RAS the radio is encrypted"

RAS isn't encryption.



"Alg=EP/RC4 KeyID=5 radio is using EP/RC4 as encryption system"

That is encryption.

 

[cg]

certainly, that is the best way.
The Channel Activity window, the Event log window and the FMPx window are the ones to have in view.
You want your Channel Activity window to be showing channel numbers from the selected FMPx frequency rather than slot numbers. If you see S1 and S2, that is a voice channel.

 

[konca]

certainly, that is the best way.
The Channel Activity window, the Event log window and the FMPx window are the ones to have in view.
You want your Channel Activity window to be showing channel numbers from the selected FMPx frequency rather than slot numbers. If you see S1 and S2, that is a voice channel.

I obtained some data on the following frequencies, and I will list them below. Can you help me with this?

Frequency: 468.075

Event Log:
TIIInonStd [Auto] (MOT) Site:S1-16 RAS NL: 14 15

Current network: S2
Current site: S2-5.1
Current network: S1
Current site: S1-16

S1-16 neighbor: Site S1-15; CC=19
S1-16 neighbor: Site S1-14; CC=79

ACK WAIT Tgt=1190 Src=40100
Private data call; Tgt=40100 Src=1184 Ch=56
ACK WAIT Tgt=1190 Src=40100
Private data call; Tgt=40100 Src=1187 Ch=55


Channel Activity:
ECC/RAS Aloha SysCode=01.0000001.10000

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frequency: 468.100

Event Log:
TIIInonStd [Auto] (MOT) Site:S1-15 DCC:0 RAS NL: 14 16

S1-15 neighbor: Site S1-14; CC=79
S1-15 neighbor: Site S1-16; CC=15

ACK WAIT Tgt=985 Src=40100
ACK REG/DEREG ACCEPT Tgt=871 Src=REGI
Private data call; Tgt=40100 Src=1293 Ch=60
Private data call; Tgt=40100 Src=885 Ch=59

Channel Activity:
ECC/RAS Aloha SysCode=01.0000001.01111

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frequency: 468.325

Event Log:
TIIIStd [Auto] BS DCC:0 RAS

Channel Activity:
Sys_Params: SysCode=01.0000001.10000
Data Header DPF=[1:Resp] Tgt=1166 Src=40100 SAP=[4:IP Data] RX OK
ECC/RAS Clear Ch=0 TgtRID=ALLMSI Src=TSI
ECC/RAS Tier III Pvt Data Grant (2:1) Tgt=1174 ch=56
ECC/RAS Tier III Pvt Data Grant (2:1) Tgt=1170 ch=55
Rate 3/4 Data 08 DC 9C EC 50 90 F3 BF 2E 07 C5 E1 65 D9 A3 EB ....P.......e...
Data Header DPF=[3:ConfData] Tgt=40100 Src=1198 Conf=1 SAP=[9: Drop] Block=5 Pad=4 Last=1 Seq=0 S=0 N(S)=6
Data Header DPF=[3:ConfData] Tgt=40100 Src=1179 Conf=1 SAP=[9: Drop] Block=5 Pad=4 Last=1 Seq=0 S=0 N(S)=4
Data Header DPF=[3:ConfData] Tgt=40100 Src=1170 Conf=1 SAP=[9: Drop] Block=5 Pad=4 Last=1 Seq=0 S=0 N(S)=2
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frequency: 468.350

Event Log:
TIIIStd [Auto] BS DCC:0 RAS

Channel Activity:
Sys_Params: SysCode=01.0000001.01111
Data Header DPF=[1:Resp] Tgt=985 Src=40100 SAP=[4:IP Data] RX OK
ECC/RAS Clear Ch=0 TgtRID=ALLMSI Src=TSI
ECC/RAS Tier III Pvt Data Grant (2:1) Tgt=40100 Src=985 ch=60
ECC/RAS Tier III Pvt Data Grant (2:1) Tgt=40100 Src=988 ch=59
Rate 3/4 Data 87 1B E0 7E 8B 85 5C 7D C1 C6 EB 88 70 32 29 F8 ...~../`}...
Data Header DPF=[3:ConfData] Tgt=40100 Src=985 Conf=1 SAP=[9: Drop] Blocks=5 Pad=6 Last=1 Seq=0 S=0 N(S)=1
Data Header DPF=[3:ConfData] Tgt=40100 Src=985 Conf=1 SAP=[9: Drop] Blocks=5 Pad=4 Last=1 Seq=0 S=0 N(S)=7
Data Header DPF=[3:ConfData] Tgt=40100 Src=985 Conf=1 SAP=[9: Drop] Blocks=5 Pad=4 Last=1 Seq=0 S=0 N(S)=6
Data Header DPF=[3:ConfData] Tgt=40100 Src=985 Conf=1 SAP=[9: Drop] Blocks=5 Pad=4 Last=1 Seq=0 S=0 N(S)=5
Data Header DPF=[3:ConfData] Tgt=40100 Src=1404 Conf=1 SAP=[9: Drop] Blocks=5 Pad=4 Last=1 Seq=0 S=0 N(S)=4

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frequency: 468.225

Event Log:
TIIIStd [Auto] BS DCC:0

Channel Activity:
Sys_Params: SysCode=01.0000001.01110
ECC/RAS Clear Ch=0 TgtRID=ALLMSI Src=TSI
ECC/RAS Tier III Pvt Data Grant (2:1) Tgt=40100 Src=891 ch=40
ECC/RAS Tier III Pvt Data Grant (2:1) Tgt=40100 Src=515 ch=39
Rate 3/4 Data A4 EA 24 2C D7 SD A3 50 67 29 C2 84 5C 04 2D 4F ..$,.].Pg)../.-O
Data Header DPF=[3:ConfData] Tgt=40100 Src=542 Conf=1 SAP=[9: Drop] Blocks=5 Pad=4 Last=1 Seq=0 S=0 N(S)=2
Data Header DPF=[3:ConfData] Tgt=40100 Src=558 Conf=1 SAP=[9: Drop] Blocks=5 Pad=4 Last=1 Seq=0 S=0 N(S)=6
Data Header DPF=[3:ConfData] Tgt=40100 Src=889 Conf=1 SAP=[9: Drop] Blocks=4 Pad=5 Last=1 Seq=0 S=0 N(S)=0
Data Header DPF=[3:ConfData] Tgt=40100 Src=885 Conf=1 SAP=[9: Drop] Blocks=5 Pad=4 Last=1 Seq=0 S=0 N(S)=4

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frequency: 468.475

Event Log:
TIIInonStd [Auto] (MOT) Site:S1-14 DCC:0 RAS NL:15 16 CC:0

Current network: S2
Current site: S2-4.3
Current network: S1
Current site: S1-14
S1-14 neighbor: Site:S1-15; CC=19
S1-14 neighbor: Site:S1-16; CC=15

Channel Activity:
Sys_Params: SysCode=01.0000001.01110
ACK WAIT Tgt=520 Src=40100
Private data call; Tgt=40100 Src=536 Ch=39
ACK WAIT Tgt=885 Src=40100
Private data call; Tgt=40100 Src=886 Ch=40
Private data call; Tgt=40100 Src=529 Ch=80
ERR2/RAS Bcast Site Pri/SysCode=6 01.0000001.01110 AB, Neighbor Pri/SysCode/CC:0 01.0000001.01111 19 ACTIVE
ERR7/RAS Bcast Site Pri/SysCode=6 01.0000001.01110 AB, Neighbor Pri/SysCode/CC:0 01.0000001.10000 15 ACTIVE

Thank you!

 

[cg]

Obviously, pick your own System name and Site names.
You first ID the Control Channels. These are the ones that carry the information that steers the radios to the correct voice channel.
I can only make guesses for the frequencies based on the info above. First thing you need to do is to sit on each of the Control Channels for a period of time to try to ID all the channels they are using. You then populate the Frequencies file with the known channel numbers using place holders (0.0) if the matching frequencies are not known.
The hardest part is pairing the frequencies carrying voice or data traffic and their assigned channel numbers.
Note: the Control Channel carries voice/data traffic on the second slot. For example, Site 14 with Control Channel on Ch 79 has seen traffic on Channel 80. Sometimes people might type this as channel 79/80 because they are paired in DSDPlus.

Network
TIIInonStd, S1, "Brazil electric company"

Sites:
TIIInonStd, S1, 14, "East site"
TIIInonStd, S1, 15, "North site"
TIIInonStd, S1, 16, "West Site"

When Populating the Frequencies file, only odd channel numbers have to be entered. DSDPlus knows the even number channels are the same info.
Frequencies:
;
TIIInonStd, S1, 14, 79, 468.4750, 0.0, 0 ; control channel
TIIInonStd, S1, 14, 39, 0.0, 0.0, 0
;
TIIInonStd, S1, 15, 19, 468.3500, 0.0, 0; control channel
TIIInonStd, S1, 15, 59, 0.0, 0.0, 0
;
TIIInonStd, S1, 16, 15, 468.0750, 0.0, 0; control channel
TIIInonStd, S1, 16, 55, 0.0, 0.0, 0

To match channels to frequencies, sit on the control channel and watch the FMPx window for spikes popping up that match the timing of the channel activity. Once you get a list that seems to not be growing bigger, populate the Frequencies file

 

[konca]

Obviously, pick your own System name and Site names.
You first ID the Control Channels. These are the ones that carry the information that steers the radios to the correct voice channel.
I can only make guesses for the frequencies based on the info above. First thing you need to do is to sit on each of the Control Channels for a period of time to try to ID all the channels they are using. You then populate the Frequencies file with the known channel numbers using place holders (0.0) if the matching frequencies are not known.
The hardest part is pairing the frequencies carrying voice or data traffic and their assigned channel numbers.
Note: the Control Channel carries voice/data traffic on the second slot. For example, Site 14 with Control Channel on Ch 79 has seen traffic on Channel 80. Sometimes people might type this as channel 79/80 because they are paired in DSDPlus.

Network
TIIInonStd, S1, "Brazil electric company"

Sites:
TIIInonStd, S1, 14, "East site"
TIIInonStd, S1, 15, "North site"
TIIInonStd, S1, 16, "West Site"

When Populating the Frequencies file, only odd channel numbers have to be entered. DSDPlus knows the even number channels are the same info.
Frequencies:
;
TIIInonStd, S1, 14, 79, 468.4750, 0.0, 0 ; control channel
TIIInonStd, S1, 14, 39, 0.0, 0.0, 0
;
TIIInonStd, S1, 15, 19, 468.3500, 0.0, 0; control channel
TIIInonStd, S1, 15, 59, 0.0, 0.0, 0
;
TIIInonStd, S1, 16, 15, 468.0750, 0.0, 0; control channel
TIIInonStd, S1, 16, 55, 0.0, 0.0, 0

To match channels to frequencies, sit on the control channel and watch the FMPx window for spikes popping up that match the timing of the channel activity. Once you get a list that seems to not be growing bigger, populate the Frequencies file

Listening more i foung this.

Frequency: 468.075*

Event Log:
TIIInonStd [Auto] (MOT) Site:S1-16 RAS NL: 14 15

Current network: S2
Current site: S2-5.1
Current network: S1
Current site: S1-16

S1-16 neighbor: Site S1-15; CC=19 468.475
S1-16 neighbor: Site S1-14; CC=79 468.350

CH: 56, 55, 16,

ACK WAIT Tgt=1190 Src=40100
Private data call; Tgt=40100 Src=1184 Ch=56
ACK WAIT Tgt=1190 Src=40100
Private data call; Tgt=40100 Src=1187 Ch=55, 16
Enc Group call; TG=174 RID=1147 Slot=2
Enc Group call; TG=174 RID=1155 Slot=2 Alg=EP/RC4 KeyID=5


Channel Activity:
ECC/RAS Aloha SysCode=01.0000001.10000

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frequency: 468.100*

Event Log:
TIIInonStd [Auto] (MOT) Site:S1-15 DCC:0 RAS NL: 14 16

S1-15 neighbor: Site S1-14; CC=79 468.475
S1-15 neighbor: Site S1-16; CC=15 468.075

CH: 59, 60, 19, 20

ACK WAIT Tgt=985 Src=40100
ACK REG/DEREG ACCEPT Tgt=871 Src=REGI
Private data call; Tgt=40100 Src=1293 Ch=60
Private data call; Tgt=40100 Src=885 Ch=59
Enc Group call; TG=210 RID=88 Ch=20

Channel Activity:
ECC/RAS Aloha SysCode=01.0000001.01111

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frequency: 468.325

Event Log:
TIIIStd [Auto] BS DCC:0 RAS

Channel Activity:
Sys_Params: SysCode=01.0000001.10000
Data Header DPF=[1:Resp] Tgt=1166 Src=40100 SAP=[4:IP Data] RX OK
ECC/RAS Clear Ch=0 TgtRID=ALLMSI Src=TSI
ECC/RAS Tier III Pvt Data Grant (2:1) Tgt=1174 ch=56
ECC/RAS Tier III Pvt Data Grant (2:1) Tgt=1170 ch=55
Rate 3/4 Data 08 DC 9C EC 50 90 F3 BF 2E 07 C5 E1 65 D9 A3 EB ....P.......e...
Data Header DPF=[3:ConfData] Tgt=40100 Src=1198 Conf=1 SAP=[9rop] Block=5 Pad=4 Last=1 Seq=0 S=0 N(S)=6
Data Header DPF=[3:ConfData] Tgt=40100 Src=1179 Conf=1 SAP=[9rop] Block=5 Pad=4 Last=1 Seq=0 S=0 N(S)=4
Data Header DPF=[3:ConfData] Tgt=40100 Src=1170 Conf=1 SAP=[9rop] Block=5 Pad=4 Last=1 Seq=0 S=0 N(S)=2
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frequency: 468.350

Event Log:
TIIIStd [Auto] BS DCC:0 RAS

Channel Activity:
Sys_Params: SysCode=01.0000001.01111
Data Header DPF=[1:Resp] Tgt=985 Src=40100 SAP=[4:IP Data] RX OK
ECC/RAS Clear Ch=0 TgtRID=ALLMSI Src=TSI
ECC/RAS Tier III Pvt Data Grant (2:1) Tgt=40100 Src=985 ch=60
ECC/RAS Tier III Pvt Data Grant (2:1) Tgt=40100 Src=988 ch=59
Rate 3/4 Data 87 1B E0 7E 8B 85 5C 7D C1 C6 EB 88 70 32 29 F8 ...~../`}...
Data Header DPF=[3:ConfData] Tgt=40100 Src=985 Conf=1 SAP=[9rop] Blocks=5 Pad=6 Last=1 Seq=0 S=0 N(S)=1
Data Header DPF=[3:ConfData] Tgt=40100 Src=985 Conf=1 SAP=[9rop] Blocks=5 Pad=4 Last=1 Seq=0 S=0 N(S)=7
Data Header DPF=[3:ConfData] Tgt=40100 Src=985 Conf=1 SAP=[9rop] Blocks=5 Pad=4 Last=1 Seq=0 S=0 N(S)=6
Data Header DPF=[3:ConfData] Tgt=40100 Src=985 Conf=1 SAP=[9rop] Blocks=5 Pad=4 Last=1 Seq=0 S=0 N(S)=5
Data Header DPF=[3:ConfData] Tgt=40100 Src=1404 Conf=1 SAP=[9rop] Blocks=5 Pad=4 Last=1 Seq=0 S=0 N(S)=4

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frequency: 468.225

Event Log:
TIIIStd [Auto] BS DCC:0

Channel Activity:
Sys_Params: SysCode=01.0000001.01110
ECC/RAS Clear Ch=0 TgtRID=ALLMSI Src=TSI
ECC/RAS Tier III Pvt Data Grant (2:1) Tgt=40100 Src=891 ch=40
ECC/RAS Tier III Pvt Data Grant (2:1) Tgt=40100 Src=515 ch=39
Rate 3/4 Data A4 EA 24 2C D7 SD A3 50 67 29 C2 84 5C 04 2D 4F ..$,.].Pg)../.-O
Data Header DPF=[3:ConfData] Tgt=40100 Src=542 Conf=1 SAP=[9rop] Blocks=5 Pad=4 Last=1 Seq=0 S=0 N(S)=2
Data Header DPF=[3:ConfData] Tgt=40100 Src=558 Conf=1 SAP=[9rop] Blocks=5 Pad=4 Last=1 Seq=0 S=0 N(S)=6
Data Header DPF=[3:ConfData] Tgt=40100 Src=889 Conf=1 SAP=[9rop] Blocks=4 Pad=5 Last=1 Seq=0 S=0 N(S)=0
Data Header DPF=[3:ConfData] Tgt=40100 Src=885 Conf=1 SAP=[9rop] Blocks=5 Pad=4 Last=1 Seq=0 S=0 N(S)=4

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frequency: 468.475

Event Log:
TIIInonStd [Auto] (MOT) Site:S1-14 DCC:0 RAS NL:15 16 CC:0

Current network: S2
Current site: S2-4.3
Current network: S1
Current site: S1-14
S1-14 neighbor: Site:S1-15; CC=19
S1-14 neighbor: Site:S1-16; CC=15

Channel Activity:
Sys_Params: SysCode=01.0000001.01110
ACK WAIT Tgt=520 Src=40100
Private data call; Tgt=40100 Src=536 Ch=39
ACK WAIT Tgt=885 Src=40100
Private data call; Tgt=40100 Src=886 Ch=40
Private data call; Tgt=40100 Src=529 Ch=80
ERR2/RAS Bcast Site Pri/SysCode=6 01.0000001.01110 AB, Neighbor Pri/SysCode/CC:0 01.0000001.01111 19 ACTIVE
ERR7/RAS Bcast Site Pri/SysCode=6 01.0000001.01110 AB, Neighbor Pri/SysCode/CC:0 01.0000001.10000 15 ACTIVE

The frequencies with "*" had their control channels linked to a frequency after the data was placed in the appropriate files.

There were also samples such as: Enc Group call; TG=174 RID=1155 Slot=2 Alg=EP/RC4 KeyID=5 and Enc Group call; TG=174 RID=1147 Slot=2 however on both occasions I could not hear them.

 

[RRR]

"RAS the radio is encrypted"

RAS isn't encryption.

RAS is absolutely encryption, it is simply marketed by Motorola under another name.
The fact is, when RAS is implemented, it successfully keeps those without the “key” (AKA “RAS Key”) from hearing the DMR radio traffic, that could be heard without RAS.
Ham’s love it, because they feel that they can use it to keep their conversations private, and want everybody to believe “it doesn’t count as encryption” because it is merely labeled differently.

 

[mtindor]

RAS is absolutely encryption, it is simply marketed by Motorola under another name.
The fact is, when RAS is implemented, it successfully keeps those without the “key” (AKA “RAS Key”) from hearing the DMR radio traffic, that could be heard without RAS.
Ham’s love it, because they feel that they can use it to keep their conversations private, and want everybody to believe “it doesn’t count as encryption” because it is merely labeled differently.

I monitor RAS sites with DSDPlus and SDRTrunk all day long. RAS is not encryption of audio. RAS is used to prevent actual radio users from accessing the repeater even if they have everything else configured properly in their radio.

 

[cg]

RAS discussions probably could be in a thread of their own as it doesn't affect the DSDPlus results but can be more confusing to someone getting the program running.

Back to the original topic, you need to ID all the channels used at each site. Go to Control tab and switch to Passive Digital Monitor.
Sit on one control channel and allow the program to gather the channels seen in the Channel Activity window. Do not try to monitor traffic until you have matched all of the channels seen with the corresponding frequencies. Otherwise, you will not be able to follow the conversations that are not encrypted.

 

[TheButcher]

"RAS is absolutely encryption"

I can hear audio using DSD+ with sites using RAS, so long as they are not encrypted. It's not encrypting the audio. It will confuse radios though, holding the squelch shut. But DSD+ ignores it, hence it's not encryption. Hence the option to encrypt audio as well with it...

 

[RRR]

I am clear on the claims.
However I will digress, since this is a thread about DSD, which seems to not be affected, and not DMR radio, which RAS renders silent / IE “unable to monitor” / IE; “a form of scrambling or encryption”.

 

[DaveNF2G]

I am clear on the claims.
However I will digress, since this is a thread about DSD, which seems to not be affected, and not DMR radio, which RAS renders silent / IE “unable to monitor” / IE; “a form of scrambling or encryption”.

Incorrect. First, if RAS was encryption, then it would be unlawful to monitor any system using it, or to make scanners that could get around it. Second, RAS is more akin to CTCSS and NAC than it is to any form of encryption.

 

[RRR]

Then why does it render a Mototrbo radio without the correct RAS key, unable to monitor it without the RAS key? If it were simply to keep unwanteds from being able to use the repeater, then it would have no effect on monitoring / receiving

 

[DaveNF2G]

Then why does it render a Mototrbo radio without the correct RAS key, unable to monitor it without the RAS key? If it were simply to keep unwanteds from being able to use the repeater, then it would have no effect on monitoring / receiving

System radios are different from scanners, which do not attempt to transmit into the system at any time. Again, it's just like PL in that respect. A radio with the wrong PL will hear nothing and be unable to transmit on the repeater. A radio with no PL will hear everything but be unable to transmit. A scanner with wrong PL or no PL will react the same way, but does not need to transmit, so there is no practical effect on access.
Same goes for RAS, except that, depending on programming, a system radio might also be blocked from receiving with missing or incorrect RAS.

 

[RRR]

So is there a way to have “no PL” (IE, no color code / talkgroup, RAS key) on DMR, in a Mototrbo radio, without having to purchase a board to enable this? (No)

Again, the fact is, RAS renders the Mototrbo radio unable to monitor the Mototrbo system, without the correct key. If it were merely used to keep an unauthorized user from transmitting on it, which was the original intent, then this wouldn’t be an issue.

Scanners are irrelevant to this discussion.