Can anybody educate me on these systems more than the wikis show? Like the process of building these systems, managing, the required amount of frequencies to function (input and output), control channels, modes, and systems that could work with it, pseudo trunking, and more? The reason I ask is that I plan to dive head-first into these organized systems, I want to know exactly how they work, and someday I would like to be able to implement one for one of my friend's business. I have never used or worked on one of these things before nor have the equipment yet.
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Trunking systems ins and outs
- Thread starter Pr999
- Start date
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
That's a huge request.
There are many different types of trunking systems, and they do not all operate the same. Trying to provide an education on all of them on a board like this would be impossible.
Building your own trunking system would be very difficult as you'd still need the vendors to assist you. Most of these systems are software licensed in some way, so "do it yourself" isn't a very good option.
Sizing, design, RF coverage, licensing, all complex things that would take up pages and pages, and most of us have tired fingers.
Well do you know where I could find this type of information then, or should we start from the setup? The wiki only tells you some stuff about it.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Your first step would be to do a needs analysis on your buddy's company. That would be figuring out what they -actually- need, and how much money they are willing to spend to get it.
You'd then go looking at what systems offered those features and fit into the budget. Picking the system first is backwards and will lead to disappointment. Trunking systems are not one size fits all, you need to pick the right kind, and then start learning about it.
Best place to get that information is from a vendor. Trunking systems are not something that you build with parts off Amazon or e-Bay. Most have software licensing that needs to be handled by the vendor. There's training involved if you expect to manage this yourself.
Not trying to discourage you. Just helping you have some realistic expectations and give you a place to start.
clbsquared
Member
While this site has a lot of good information and a lot of smart people within it regarding these types of systems, it’s really not the best way of getting all the information you’ll need. And there is a lot of information that you will need. It takes months, if not years to fully understand the in’s and outs of trunking systems.
You should seek this info from a reputable vendor in your area. Maybe even apply for a job or an internship.
Here, you are going to get a hundred different responses on the what, where, why and how’s of these types of systems.
You should seek this info from a reputable vendor in your area. Maybe even apply for a job or an internship.
Here, you are going to get a hundred different responses on the what, where, why and how’s of these types of systems.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Training on these systems is usually part of the purchase contract for the system. You would negotiate the necessary costs of training by the vendor as part of the system purchase. That training is really expensive. It's also vendor specific and can take weeks.
Building one of these systems on your own is not a simple task. They are not something where you buy parts of Amazon, eBay or a municipal auction and just plug it all in.
There's a huge amount of knowledge, training, skill, tools and test equipment necessary to turn up a trunked radio system. They are not "plug-n-play".
A good place to start learning about trunked radio systems is to take a step back about 80 years and learn about telephone system trunking. That's the basics that trunked radio systems run off of.
Building one of these systems on your own is not a simple task. They are not something where you buy parts of Amazon, eBay or a municipal auction and just plug it all in.
There's a huge amount of knowledge, training, skill, tools and test equipment necessary to turn up a trunked radio system. They are not "plug-n-play".
A good place to start learning about trunked radio systems is to take a step back about 80 years and learn about telephone system trunking. That's the basics that trunked radio systems run off of.
DeoVindice
P25 Underground
The MotoTRBO System Planner might be an interesting read for you.
TampaTyron
Beep Boop, Beep Boop
Radios systems are really 3 things:
-Coverage (How much coverage do you need? In building, tunnel, etc?)
-Capacity (How many channels/groups/users on the system?)
-Level of redundancy (Do you need backup power? Do you need backup network/site links?)
So, what do you need coverage/capacity/redundancy wise? What is your budget? TT
-Coverage (How much coverage do you need? In building, tunnel, etc?)
-Capacity (How many channels/groups/users on the system?)
-Level of redundancy (Do you need backup power? Do you need backup network/site links?)
So, what do you need coverage/capacity/redundancy wise? What is your budget? TT
Does your friends company want or need radios? Or are you going to try to talk them into it? What do they currently use for communications? Maybe they don't need anything other than what they currently have.
In my opinion by the time you learn enough to intelligently speak to your friend about radios his business model may have changed.
Learning is still a good thing though, so keep on doing that!
In my opinion by the time you learn enough to intelligently speak to your friend about radios his business model may have changed.
Learning is still a good thing though, so keep on doing that!
He currently does not run any businesses, but this will be in the future when he starts one. It is currently unknown at this time since it will be 5 to 10 years down the road but I would start him off with an LTR system since it seems simpler and a good system for beginners, but I would like to know some licensing ins and outs and other functions for when I actually employ this.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
It's getting harder and harder to find LTR gear. Not a good plan for 5-10 years out.
DMR would probably be your best bet, but without knowing -why- he needs a trunked radio system is kind of making us all wonder. Does he even have a business plan in place? Do you know what kind of business he's going to run, what sort of service, what will require a radio system?
Small business trunked radio systems are getting harder and harder to find. So many users going to cellular based systems, or utilizing a system run by a radio shop.
Good news is it sounds like you have 5-10 years to figure this out. Lots of time to learn and study the options.
DMR would probably be your best bet, but without knowing -why- he needs a trunked radio system is kind of making us all wonder. Does he even have a business plan in place? Do you know what kind of business he's going to run, what sort of service, what will require a radio system?
Small business trunked radio systems are getting harder and harder to find. So many users going to cellular based systems, or utilizing a system run by a radio shop.
Good news is it sounds like you have 5-10 years to figure this out. Lots of time to learn and study the options.
TampaTyron
Beep Boop, Beep Boop
LTR is likely a poor choice. If he needs wide area, then it would be most cost effective to find a provider in the area with an existing wide area system and simply rent space there. If he need onsite, I would find a local provider that you trust and take recommendations from them. Radio is a very personal industry and you really need a local partner to help. I lean towards MOTOTRBO, but there are several options from Kenwood, Hytera, Icom, etc. TT
Well, that's why I came here to ask because it's not just about what my friend is doing in the future, I also am very interested in trunking in general and I'd really like to know how these work and possibly setting one up for my own use at some point or even just renting a talkgroup on some system nearby.
I am actually thinking about those types of digital options, it's just I think something like LTR would be a good start/base to get us both to learn how this stuff actually works, inside and out. And then, if we need to, we could move straight to digital.
12dbsinad
Member
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2010
- Messages
- 2,002
What kind of coverage are we talking about here? You can have all the equipment and knowledge in the world but it does you no good without GOOD sites. Towers, tall buildings, mountain tops, backhaul, etc, rental will probably bankrupt you before you even start. Good sites are NOT cheap and they never go away. LTE PTT radios is the way to go IMHO, but since you state 5-10 years I wouldn't do anything at all because of technology advancements and EOL'ed equipment.
I know I've been forgetting to mention coverage, it would be in one of the cities unless he goes with a more rural spot for his business. I think something like 30-50w could cover it just fine. And I also plan to use it for comms on my property as well.
I would have to find how many positions he will have for it depending on what it is. I may only just need a few talkgroups, I know it sounds like so little for even a trunking system, but the reason would be that trunking systems can properly organize chat groups so they don't interfere with each other, and I really hate when people are constantly stepping over each other, so having a system like this would help keep the groups from that issue. It's really my main concern.
And I probably would need some sort of backup for it, and I will probably get it hooked up to some streaming app like Zello so I can talk with him when I'm too far away to help.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
I got it.
Just that it's a big subject and it really seemed like you were expecting us to teach you the in's and out's about trunking in a few posts.
5-10 years is a long time. The industry is changing. Maintaining large trunked systems is often a business that only governments or very large businesses can afford.
Some free training here:
Radio Academy: Free Courses for Critical Communications
Courses by experts with decades of industry experience in education and radio technology. Each course consists of short videos, a pdf study guide, and an exam
www.taitradioacademy.com
nd5y
Member
A trunked system isn't going to fix people with no radio training trying to talk over eachother.
speedway_navigator
Member
Coverage area and trunking are not directly related. Trunking is users sharing multiple repeaters instead of a set group being assigned just one.
An analogy is waiting in line at the bank where there is 1 line and each person goes to the next teller versus a grocery store where you pray the line you just got in goes faster than the others, but won't if I'm in front of you, I'm jinxed ("price check on aisle 5").
An analogy is waiting in line at the bank where there is 1 line and each person goes to the next teller versus a grocery store where you pray the line you just got in goes faster than the others, but won't if I'm in front of you, I'm jinxed ("price check on aisle 5").
dickie757
Wired
This may be a bit crass, but @Pr999 how old are you? How old are you gonna be in 5-10 years? Will you be able to lug hundreds of pounds of gear up stairs, under stairs, behind stairs, ladders, bushes, etc? I did get a job doing this because I wanted to learn. I have been given access to online learning that costs big bucks, and all they want from me is to follow direction. Cool, I can do that, I"ve been doing it for 46 years now. What is your day to day job? Can you manage the commitment of dropping what you are doing to take care of a site issue? We have personnel that are "on call" and answer calls anytime of the whenever.
For grins, and to see if you think you want to deal with FCC and coordinators, put together a package to submit to a coordinator. One frequency. No repeaters. No trunking.
It will give you a taste. I tasted it, and I liked it.
Best of luck,
Dickie
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