Turn XTS into a scanner

[knockoffham]

Hello. Hopefully this is the right place for this. So, basically, I am a radio nerd in Michigan and want to listen to MPSCS. I understand that MPSCS is fully P25 phase II capable, but all talkgroups are phase I in every county except Oakland. Making this thread I'm assuming they'll stay phase I for some time because of better audio quality and no need unless many more talkgrouops are made. So, basically, here's my situation. A simulcast-capable scanner (I'm in Ingham county which is simulcast) is several hundred dollars, and has way crappier receive circuitry than a proper radio. An XTS2500 can be had used for under $100 and has a way better receiver than any scanner. Now, I understand that turning on the radio, and changing talkgroups, etc, would affiliate the radio and transmit on MPSCS, which would be illegal, and the radio would immediately be inhibited because of no system key. I also understand that having it permanently in scan mode basically makes it a worse user experience than spending a lot of money on a proper scanner. So my idea is this- buy an XTS2500 or similar, program it up for my county's MPSCS site based on RadioReference/FCC ULS data such as it would be if in use, and physically disable it from transmitting, so it is incapable of affiliating with the system. Would the radio still "work" (receiving wise) if I went and desoldered the RF amp circuity, or modified it some other similar way, or would it get mad, detecting that I had removed its transmitting capabilities and say something like "SERVICE IMMEDIATELY" and shut off? Or am I missing something even more simple? Perhaps an XTS can't even properly decode a simulcast system using CQPSK (or whatever MPSCS simulcast uses).
Summary: I want to listen to MPSCS by buying an XTS, programming it as if it was going to be used on the system, and physically disable its transmit capability so that I will catch all traffic and change channels such as if it were a proper radio on the system, but it is physically unable to transmit and try to affiliate.

 

[jeepsandradios]

Buy a unication.

 

[DVINTHEHOUSEMAN]

There are many previous threads on this topic and multiple other online guides covering NAS.

 

[Skypilot007]

Butchering your radio so it doesn't transmit is not going to work. You must program it for non-affiliate scan.

You can park your radio on any talk group you like if you do the non- affiliate scan programming correctly (scan one channel slaved to your conventional channel). Its a lot of programming but it works.

If you want to program a radio as it would be on the system look into Relm BK or Harris radios.

Unication work well too.

Have fun.

 

[knockoffham]

Buy a unication.

That defeats my primary goal: not spending $500+.

Butchering your radio so it doesn't transmit is not going to work. You must program it for non-affiliate scan.

You can park your radio on any talk group you like if you do the non- affiliate scan programming correctly (scan one channel slaved to your conventional channel). Its a lot of programming but it works.

If you want to program a radio as it would be on the system look into Relm BK or Harris radios.

Unication work well too.

Have fun.

Thanks, I’ll look for more info on NAS. I just heard that having an XTS in scan mode doesn’t catch everything.

 

[chrismol1]

While what you want to do with a 2500 can be done with non-affiliate scan and thru further various programming techniques to ensure no transmit such as TX Inhibit switch, changing trunking offsets to prevention affiliation. It is still limited to only 15 talkgroups in scan, and thats with the extended scan software mod.

 

[K2NEC]

You (OP) very clearly have no idea how trunking works or how to program a radio for trunking.

A phase 1 Harris can be found for a little over $100. If you really want a radio, get that and have someone program it for you.

 

[a417]

[ MPSCS has subscribed to this thread ]

 

[knockoffham]

You (OP) very clearly have no idea how trunking works or how to program a radio for trunking.

A phase 1 Harris can be found for a little over $100. If you really want a radio, get that and have someone program it for you.

I know how trunking works and I have Astro CPS. My idea is that I would program the radio with all the frequencies for my county’s simulcast sites, but make it so that it cannot transmit. So instead of being limited to 16 talkgroups as it would be in scan mode, I have as many individual talkgroups as needed and can easily cycle through them (I’ll set up channels for all my county’s talk groups), the radio just won’t be able to transmit. I’ll look into a Harris. I have programmed several radios, LTR and DMR trunking just not P25. But I am familiar with the technology and how it works.

[ MPSCS has subscribed to this thread ]

Don’t worry MPSCS, I’m not going to transmit. I’m fact I’d like to make the radio physically unable to do so. I know you’d just brick the radio right away anyway.

While what you want to do with a 2500 can be done with non-affiliate scan and thru further various programming techniques to ensure no transmit such as TX Inhibit switch, changing trunking offsets to prevention affiliation. It is still limited to only 15 talkgroups in scan, and thats with the extended scan software mod.

That’s why I’d like to set it up programming wise as if it were in use but just physically inhibit it from transmitting via hardware mod.

 

[a417]

I know you’d just brick the radio right away anyway.

 

[northstarfire0693]

Using a Moto to NAS scan a system, you will also need the sys key for MPSCS to enter the trunking data into CPS. That you are not going to get from the system admin. Yes, there are ways around that with hex editing, depot and keygen software. You will not find the software here and its a violation of forum rules to ask for it. So please dont.

As others said, try to find a Harris or unication. Much easier to program then M with no risk of registering with the system.

 

[knockoffham]

Using a Moto to NAS scan a system, you will also need the sys key for MPSCS to enter the trunking data into CPS. That you are not going to get from the system admin. Yes, there are ways around that with hex editing, depot and keygen software. You will not find the software here and its a violation of forum rules to ask for it. So please dont.

As others said, try to find a Harris or unication. Much easier to program then M with no risk of registering with the system.

Oh. I thought you could still receive without a key. Oops. I have all software but I don’t want to do any hijacking type things with MPSCS for obvious reasons. Ok, I’ll look for another brand or just dump a lot on a scanner. Thank you.

 

[KE4ZNR]

I know how trunking works and I have Astro CPS. My idea is that I would program the radio with all the frequencies for my county’s simulcast sites, but make it so that it cannot transmit. So instead of being limited to 16 talkgroups as it would be in scan mode, I have as many individual talkgroups as needed and can easily cycle through them (I’ll set up channels for all my county’s talk groups), the radio just won’t be able to transmit. I’ll look into a Harris. I have programmed several radios, LTR and DMR trunking just not P25. But I am familiar with the technology and how it works.

Take it from someone who maintains/manages a few hundred public works XTS 5Ks in the radio shop in which I work:
Your proposed solution will not work the way you want it to.
You would first need Astro 25 CPS (not Astro CPS).
And you would still be limited to 15 (NOT 16) talkgroups per scanlist. You can't put "all your counties talkgroups" into an XTS scanlist. The XTS 5Ks were designed to scan only a very few TGs at a time as it is a subscriber radio not a scanner.
No offense but your knowledge of how trunking works with an actual subscriber unit like an XTS 5K is amateur at best and liable to get yourself in legal trouble at worst.
As others have said: Consider a Unication pager, BK or Harris radio that will allow system scanning in no gray area or an SDS scanner.

 

[K2NEC]

I know how trunking works and I have Astro CPS.

Oh. I thought you could still receive without a key. Oops. I have all software but I don’t want to do any hijacking type things with MPSCS for obvious reasons.

Rightttt...

 

[knockoffham]

Rightttt...

If I was an expert I wouldn’t be here asking questions. I said I’ve got experience in DMR and LTR and understand the basics of trunking. I have no experience in P25. And it seems I will be able to accomplish my goal, just not with an XTS, thanks to the knowledge of other people here who are helpful and not out just to ridicule P25 newbies.

 

[jeepsandradios]

You will spend the same amount of funds on a unication, bk radio or harris by the time you find software and cables to do it. Unication and SDS is the best units for your use case.

 

[knockoffham]

You will spend the same amount of funds on a unication, bk radio or harris by the time you find software and cables to do it. Unication and SDS is the best units for your use case.

Thank you! Ok, I’ll research more, and maybe try to see if I can find one used. I’m a college kid with not a lot of money so I’d rather not spend $700 on a new Unication (so yeah radio is probably not the smartest hobby). It seems that’s probably what I’ll end up doing though.

 

[jeepsandradios]

SDS100 - $649 (Does V, U, 700, 800 and more)
Unication G4 - $632 (Only does 700/800)

 

[WX4JCW]

Honestly buy a Unication, it doesnt expose you to legal liability and it performs if programmed correctly exactly like a system radio, plus it has more monitoring capabilities than say an APX or XTS

 

[northstarfire0693]

Oh. I thought you could still receive without a key. Oops. I have all software but I don’t want to do any hijacking type things with MPSCS for obvious reasons. Ok, I’ll look for another brand or just dump a lot on a scanner. Thank you.

I wouldn't know. I have never tried to NAS with a Moto without the correct syskey. It may or may not be possible, but I doubt it.

If you look at Harris or BK. Yes, the radios, cables and software can cost. Some Harris like the XG100P and XL200 can be programed over BT without a programing cable. As far as getting the software. Yes, its out there and if you do some research, you can find it. There are dealers on here who can also hook you up for a reasonable cost. If you want to go down this current path, you will need to do some research.