CKennedy4812
Member
Also Tanker 101, an MD-87.
N291EA
N291EA
2021 Arizona wildfire season
- Thread starter GlobalNorth
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Keep in mind that NIFC issued direction 3-4 years ago that the NIFC Tacs and Commands are for use by national ICS Type 1 and Type 2 incident management team incidents only. That is why so many USFS regions have had regional tactical frequencies assigned in the last 10 years or so. Region 3 of the USFS is no exception, they have 3 regional tacticals. All of the official frequency guides I've accessed for Region 3 in the last 3 years show the forests have removed the NIFC frequencies from their primary radio program groups. The Flagstaff FD is subject to this same directive as they have to have a coop agreement with the USFS for use of any federal frequencies.
Several more frequencies have been found to be active on the Flag Fire near Kingman, AZ and they are:
166.725 NIFC Tac 5
167.950 Air Tactical Use
168.275 BLM Tac 10
Also, some personnel will use the repeater frequency of 170.5125 on Hayden Peak in the talk around mode, simplex on the repeater output.
166.725 NIFC Tac 5
167.950 Air Tactical Use
168.275 BLM Tac 10
Also, some personnel will use the repeater frequency of 170.5125 on Hayden Peak in the talk around mode, simplex on the repeater output.
clover509
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- Feb 24, 2007
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- 166
Have N197GB, N24HD up on 134.1750 MHz (Zone 7 A/A secondary) discussing tactics and drops with TNKR16 (N478NA), and two SEATS, N398LA and N969WP for a wildland fire near Maggie Mine Road, east of I-17, about MM 247. Briefly heard air-to-ground comms on A/G 34 (Zone 7 A/G primary), 167.1750 MHz.
UPDATE - As I posted, TNKR40 (N470NA) arrived on scene and is being led by N24HD for drops.
UPDATE - As I posted, TNKR40 (N470NA) arrived on scene and is being led by N24HD for drops.
A source of mine gave me access to some official 2021 information for the Southwest GACC and your observation of 134.1750 as secondary for Zone 7 (Prescott Dispatch) has not changed from 2020. Aviation frequencies authorized by the FAA tend to change far more often than those authorized by the NTIA for federal agencies. If there are any changes to all the other frequencies I will try to post those here in the next 2-3 weeks, time allowing.
Thank you!
Also, the most often changed frequencies for federal agencies are in reaction to the 2019 NTIA reallocating of the fed's VHF-High band. Everything else should remain the same if the agency is in compliance. Sometimes the frequencies they switched to cause unforeseen interference problems and they switch then, but things should start settling down. The Department of the Interior seems to be the most behind on getting into compliance. NIFC and the USFS seemed to anticipate the new allocation 5-10 years prior to 2019 and was making changes when they could.
PHD-455 Tussock burning in fairly inaccessible terrain west of Black Canyon City and North of Lake Pleasant. Fast moving wind driven.
A/A 134.175
A/G 167.175
CMD 172.525 BLM White Tanks and Horsethief.
ATGS = 3ME
T-40 = 470NA
T-810 = 187 LA
T-820 = ??
T-840 = 969WP
T-898 = 398LA
IC ordering Task force of T-6 4X4 engines, Type 1 IHC and T1 & T3 helos.
Likely go to Type 3 ICP shortly
A/A 134.175
A/G 167.175
CMD 172.525 BLM White Tanks and Horsethief.
ATGS = 3ME
T-40 = 470NA
T-810 = 187 LA
T-820 = ??
T-840 = 969WP
T-898 = 398LA
IC ordering Task force of T-6 4X4 engines, Type 1 IHC and T1 & T3 helos.
Likely go to Type 3 ICP shortly
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PHD-455 Tussock
Shift Change
ATGS now 6WA
Add LEAD 50 = 50HV
Add T-163 = 6AC (diverted from Bartlett)
Add T3 helo 4HH up for a recon.
LAT load return from Prescott
SEAT load and return from Buckeye
Shift Change
ATGS now 6WAAdd LEAD 50 = 50HV
Add T-163 = 6AC (diverted from Bartlett)
Add T3 helo 4HH up for a recon.
LAT load return from Prescott
SEAT load and return from Buckeye
Thanks for the report.
I'm an ICS nerd, having worked 108 fires during my career. The majority of these assignments were out on the lines, but I had quite a few incident command post (ICP) assignments as I had qualifications for 3 positions in the ICP. I spent a bit of time in the planning section of incident command teams as a resource unit leader and situation unit leader. The planning section, specifically the resource unit leader, is responsible for assembling the IAP or Incident Action Plan. The plan shows the where, the when and the task of each resource on the fire. Your last statement should say "Likely go to a Type 3 IMT shortly." The ICP is the incident command post and the fire is commanded/managed by an incident command team, IMT. An ICP, by itself, is not typed, it is the command post and logistical base for an incident, whatever type that might be, 1-5.
Did someone specifically state they wanted to order a "task force?" I'm wondering if someone ordered a STRIKE TEAM of Type 6 engines, an IHC (interagency hotshot crew) and then the helicopters. A task force is not usually ordered, as it would require a task force leader and those leaders don't typically have oversight of aviation units. The "Air Attack" or Air Tactical Group Supervisor, directs the aviation units. But, they might be running things different than what I saw during my career. A strike team consists of 5 engines, 2 crews or 2 dozers, all of the same kind and type, along with a strike team leader. Water tenders and aircraft are not organized into strike teams. A task force consists of a mixture of ground resources, different kinds and types, organized to address a specific task on an incident. Both strike teams and task forces require a leader, who has transportation separate from the resources they are leading.
I'm not trying to be picky, I'm wanting to know how this fire is being managed. I also wanted to pass along some procedural details.
@ es93546
Yep, the IC stated "a task force of T6 engines with 4x4 capability". Sounded kinda odd to me too. maybe a new IC?
'Tussock Air Attack' was directing the air assets (Seats and the single LAT) until the lead showed up. Tanker pilot didn't want to fly on some parts of the fire without a lead, so they worked the heel and flanks together with the SEATS.
Its started as an initial attack, and I assumed they'd assign an IMT since its going longer that 1 op period.
Of course, all this is derived from radio traffic. I haven't seen a plan yet.
Yep, the IC stated "a task force of T6 engines with 4x4 capability". Sounded kinda odd to me too. maybe a new IC?
'Tussock Air Attack' was directing the air assets (Seats and the single LAT) until the lead showed up. Tanker pilot didn't want to fly on some parts of the fire without a lead, so they worked the heel and flanks together with the SEATS.
Its started as an initial attack, and I assumed they'd assign an IMT since its going longer that 1 op period.
Of course, all this is derived from radio traffic. I haven't seen a plan yet.
I should add that it is typical for the IC to have an Operations Chief supervise the resources on an incident. If the fire gets large enough it is divided up into divisions with Division Supervisors. In the beginning of a fire incident divisions are usually established for each flank, or side, of the fire. If it grows to include more than 5 divisions, the fire is organized into Branches, with Branch Directors, each of whom are supervising multiple divisions. An incident can include 5 sections, each with a section chief, who report to the IC. Those sections are: Operations, Plans, Logistics and Finance/Administration. If an incident gets large enough, or if there are many incidents in an area, an Area Command Team is brought in. They provide command for all the incidents in an area or when one incident gets so large that it has to be divided to have an incident command team in charge of a portion of the incident.
Great. You are paying attention to the terms used over the air. I look forward to additional updates from you. If the IC was ordering just the Type 6 engines for this task force and not including the crew and aircraft, he/she is confusing task forces and strike teams. I then wonder what level IC is in charge. Nearly every experienced firefighter, who has taken certain ICS courses, has served as a Type 5 IC trainee and been signed off as having a number of tasks completed by a training IC. A Type 4 IC requires being an IC on larger fires with more resources. I think it also requires being crew boss qualified, which is a 40 hour classroom training, completing a task book as a trainee (over 200 tasks in this book) and getting satisfactory performance ratings on a number of incidents. I reached this level. A Type 3 IC is pretty much the place where people have to be working in fire management full time to qualify for. It takes a lot of time, a lot of training and a lot of assignments to qualify. Usually people are battalion chiefs before they qualify.
PHD-455 Tussock
TFR shows A/A 124.875 and I'm hearing traffic.
National 168.650 active with tankers working from KPRC and SEATS from Buckeye.
CMD 172.525 active with IC<>PNF traffic.
I'm not hearing any traffic on the A/G or A/A cache freqs. <edit: I guess it would help to unlock the other freqs>
A/G 168.400
ADS-B showing 2 tankers and 2 seats with Lead and Air Attack up.
2400+ acres now in the PNF
Type 1 ordered per InciWeb.
TFR shows A/A 124.875 and I'm hearing traffic.
National 168.650 active with tankers working from KPRC and SEATS from Buckeye.
CMD 172.525 active with IC<>PNF traffic.
I'm not hearing any traffic on the A/G or A/A cache freqs. <edit: I guess it would help to unlock the other freqs
>A/G 168.400
ADS-B showing 2 tankers and 2 seats with Lead and Air Attack up.
2400+ acres now in the PNF
Type 1 ordered per InciWeb.
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PHD-455 Tussock
Type 1 team in place this evening.
Rotor Freq 134.025
New A/G 169.925 not in use yet
Type 1 team in place this evening.
Rotor Freq 134.025
New A/G 169.925 not in use yet
PHD-455 Tussock UPDATE
Type 1 IMT as of 0600
CMD RPT = 172.525
LOG RPT = 170.450
A/G 168.400
ROTOR VICTOR = 135.025
A/A = 124.875
Just helos and ATGS working as of 1100
Type 1 IMT as of 0600
CMD RPT = 172.525
LOG RPT = 170.450
A/G 168.400
ROTOR VICTOR = 135.025
A/A = 124.875
Just helos and ATGS working as of 1100
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