It could be, but the likelihood of CDF being on the system already seems odd.
Regards,
-Frank C.
California Radio Interoperable System (CRIS)
- Thread starter mcjones2013
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Regards,
-Frank C.
ScannerDude244
Member
It does make sense site 20 on Loma. Felton is located near Loma hills where CZU Calfire ECC is
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
I'd expect CalFire to stick with their standard naming convention and use CZU in the channel names, like they do on VHF.
I'd vote for either the name being misunderstood, or it indicating something other than the CZU unit.
Seconded. They wouldn't change things up like that...Must've been something else based out of FELton.
Regards,
-Frank C.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Seconded. They wouldn't change things up like that...Must've been something else based out of FELton.
Ain't nothing in Felton besides CZU and a lot of hippies.
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While it may or may not be CDF, it absolutely indicates that someone has radios programmed on the system already, perhaps an OES rig at a local (FEL?) station??
Of note, I have heard several CDF units (mostly talking to Grass Valley) advising that they are going out of service for radio programming this morning.
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This is unrelated to CRIS, this is CalFire doing the 2021 radio load reprogramming statewide. Nothing CRIS in the 2021 load.
I found a news story out of Santa Cruz and near the bottom the Felton Fire Chief talks about joining a "new statewide system". So looks like Santa Cruz County is coming on board. The 4502 encrypted must be SC Sheriff and this 4501 could be fire or sheriff.
lookout.co
Outdated ‘Flintstone’ radio system sounds alarm for Santa Cruz-area fire officials, sparks push for overhaul
SPECIAL REPORT: “The best way I can say (it) is you’ve got a computer from 1990 that has limited memory, and you’re trying to load the latest version of Google Maps,” Santa Cruz Fire Chief Jason Hajduk says of the system. But finding the money to fix things won’t be easy.
lookout.co
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
I found a news story out of Santa Cruz and near the bottom the Felton Fire Chief talks about joining a "new statewide system". So looks like Santa Cruz County is coming on board. The 4502 encrypted must be SC Sheriff and this 4501 could be fire or sheriff.
Outdated ‘Flintstone’ radio system sounds alarm for Santa Cruz-area fire officials, sparks push for overhaul
SPECIAL REPORT: “The best way I can say (it) is you’ve got a computer from 1990 that has limited memory, and you’re trying to load the latest version of Google Maps,” Santa Cruz Fire Chief Jason Hajduk says of the system. But finding the money to fix things won’t be easy.
They've talked about it. They are currently on VHF analog and it works pretty well. They do have some coverage issues, but a lot of it is because they don't want to invest in the system to address it.
But the idea of them switching to CRIS doesn't make a lot of sense. The Loma Prieta site doesn't cover enough of the county to be useful. 700MHz doesn't work as well as VHF in the mountains and the heavy forest.
Santa Cruz County currently has around 22 radio sites to get what coverage they do have on VHF.
Wanna guess how many CRIS sites they'll need to duplicate the coverage they have on VHF right now? Hint: It's way more than 22. The state isn't going to give those to them for free. They'll also need to buy all new radios.
Financially it makes more sense to fix the coverage issues they have on VHF than try to build out a new 700MHz system.
Found TG22 with RID58 at 1158 on 6/3/21 on Mt. Saint Helena. Looks like just a channel grant, but still there...
Regards,
-Frank C.
I'm reading that they have several issues. One is certainly coverage. Another is being able to communicate from inside buildings. There's more.... I don't see a "one size fits all" solution. SC needs to operate as both an urban and a rural county. Since their population has gone up, it seems they need to increase what they spend on radio solutions.
I really dislike the analogies they presented. My 50 year old VHF radio works as good as ever, although it might be difficult to obtain replacement parts. I don't expect these new radios and systems to work as reliably for as many years (but oh they do have more bells and whistles)!
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Outdated ‘Flintstone’ radio system sounds alarm for Santa Cruz-area fire officials, sparks push for overhaul
SPECIAL REPORT: “The best way I can say (it) is you’ve got a computer from 1990 that has limited memory, and you’re trying to load the latest version of Google Maps,” Santa Cruz Fire Chief Jason Hajduk says of the system. But finding the money to fix things won’t be easy.
I'm hosting some of the equipment for the Santa Cruz County Fire radio system at a few of my sites. It's anything but "Flinstone". They are running very recent Tait equipment and it's all in good repair.
The backbone is using mostly AT&T copper, and that needs to be addressed, but that's easy to do. It's happening anyway for the County Sheriff system which shares many of the sites. I've offered them access to my network.
They do have more than one dispatch channel, but Yellow has been down for a while. Again, something they have access to, but haven't paid to fix it.
They could add more channels, and it would still be cheaper than trying to build out CRIS and buying all new radios, but the article sort of suggests that CRIS is the -only- solution that is going to work. I think it's very one sided and doesn't present the issues very well.
The article is just another one to try and drum up taxpayer support for spending a bunch of money. They absolutely do need to invest money in their radio system, but they need to look at the entire thing and not just CRIS.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
There are not a lot of big buildings in the county, so designing a radio system around in-building coverage isn't a financially responsible plan. That can be solved with other technology/methods.
Going 700MHz with the rugged terrain isn't going to work out well. More coverage issues, more sites needed. Getting the network connections into some of those sites needed to cover the mountains is going to be difficult.
They do need to spend more money on their system. No question there, but it's something that could be planned out logically. It's good that they considered CRIS, but I know that's not the right solution. I'm running quite a bit of 800MHz and VHF stuff in the area, and they don't want to go down the 700/800MHz path. That's not going to work out well. There isn't enough taxpayers in the county to fund that sort of system.
A while back, the county did start looking at using 800 in the cities and reusing the VHF channels for the mountains, but it never took off. Again, comes down to funding and taxpayer base.
kj6psg
Member
In case we need more evidence, I'm in Santa Paula right now and I'm getting unwavering full signal strength from the control channel on a portable receiver. I've submitted this site to the database.
Cal Fire has interoperability with everyone in wildland fire. VHF-High is the band of choice for wildland fire and most natural resource/land management agencies in California and most other states, at least western states. Everyone on a natural resource/wildland fire incident ends up using VHF-High. UHF and 700/800 won't work in significant topography, that is why that activity has never "advanced" beyond it. There are people on this website that think higher frequencies, trunking and simulcast are the future. They think those that oppose these systems are mired in the past. This isn't true and it is the talk of radio system sales and marketing people. Rural areas in the mountains use VHF for nearly every service. If some jurisdiction goes to higher frequencies and such, interoperability is lost. They already have it on VHF-High. It isn't broken, so don't fix it.
One natural resource agency in California, the Department of Park and Recreation decided to move to 800 MHz. The areas they need to cover are, for the most part, relatively small and 800 MHz has worked, if they can link their sites into the state's microwave backbone. They wanted an exclusive statewide use system. I think that is impossible in California on VHF-High and this was the situation in the early 1980's. Caltrans wanted the same thing. Both agencies went to 800 MHz, but it isn't working out as well as the agencies would have liked it to. All the California State Park ranger vehicles I've looked at have a VHF High radio in them. This is for interoperability with CA Dept of Fish and Wildlife, most rural county agencies and the NPS, USFS, BLM and USFWS. It is expensive to maintain two radios in each LE vehicle. California State Parks and Fish & Wildlife don't get nearly the funding they need so that second radio is a significant issue for them.
I know of one federal natural resource agency in California that has a second radio in each fire vehicle. It is the Angeles National Forest. They have L..A. County UHF radios in their fire vehicles. I've been inside one of their patrol rigs and they were listening to LAC Blue 8, the county wide dispatch channel. I think I would rebel if I had to listen to it. I wouldn't be able to work with that noise. Having to purchase a second mobile radio for each vehicle drives up the cost of fire management. That function is eating up the budget of the USFS, the other functions aren't, um functioning, very well. Thank goodness LAC has a good VHF system for wild;and fire now, with command repeaters all over county. It would work even better if they dispatched all wildland fire on VHF, multicasting same on Blue 8.
I think if CDF wanted to switch to 700/800 it would be a disaster in many different ways.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Yeah...
Well aware of all that.
I have no fear that anything other than VHF is going to happen here. I've done radio work in this neck of the woods for almost 30 years now, and 700MHz isn't going to work. State isn't going to fund building out the network to support fire in a region like this. The agencies may push the county to make it happen, but it won't. Not enough taxpayers here to fund it.
Eventually someone will decide that "agency X has fancy new multiband radios, so we must need them…" They'll use interoperability/mutual aid as the reason, and someone will fund it, because the people that make the final decision likely don't know which end of the radio to talk into and would probably just poke their eye out with the antenna if they tried...
The county is already playing around with various Harris radios, including XL-200p's. But the plan is to stick with the XL-185's in VHF only. I'm sure some 'command' vehicles will get multiband radios, it makes sense.
CDF isn't going to change to 700MHz, but I can absolutely see them eventually replacing one of the VHF mobiles in their trucks with a multiband radio, again in the name of "interoperability". But CDF will never go entirely to CRIS, not going to happen, system not designed for it, coverage isn't possible, and no funding to make that happen.
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I agree with a lot of what's being said about VHF, 700/800 isn't for everyone, in portions of California it probably isn't for many.
Nothing says CRIS can't have VHF sites, of course that has difficulties involved as well.
Nothing says CRIS can't have VHF sites, of course that has difficulties involved as well.
Not that difficult to cross-patch VHF to UHF or 7/800 at the mountain tops...So yeah, they could have VHF easily.
Regards,
-Frank C.
Looking through the talk-groups that have been listed, looks like TG11, TG139 and TG4502 are all possibly TDMA...Just based off log observations.
Regards,
-Frank C.
Regards,
-Frank C.
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If they are all running P25, I haven't seen a solution that makes the analog<->P25 transition sound good yet, some of them are getting better but still not great.
