New Chicago OEMC Public Safety - 800 MHz P25

[Premises2972]

I'm willing to bet all my radios the two TGs being tested will be the CTA North and South bus Supervisors channels. I'm so sure of it I'm already tagging my scanners. LOL

what makes you so sure,
Also, if I win this bet, I will put your radios to good use

 

[ChicagoRadio736]

what makes you so sure,
Also, if I win this bet, I will put your radios to good use

Simply making a guess LOL especially since the testing is following the bus lines.

 

[werinshades]

Simply making a guess LOL especially since the testing is following the bus lines.

You might lose the radios, based on this:

I can confirm these were the CTA Radio Technicians performing citywide grid testing paying special attention to CTA bus and rail lines. There was an issue in CTA Blue Line O'Hare station mentioned with a radio showing out of range and one of the Techs voiced his surprise because it's in use by O'Hare already. In addition, the Diversey Blue Line station was mentioned that would have to be looked into. Probably programming issues.

Another conversation involved the Red Line construction project and the "old" system not having coverage southwest of 103rd Stony Island transmitter site. It was mentioned "we should be on the city's system by then, so shouldn't be an issue."

 

[werinshades]

TGID 5173 (Academy-81)
TGID 5174 (Academy-82)
TGID 5175 (Academy-83)

All self-identified, currently conducting scenario based training (2600 series beats).

TGID 5178 (Academy-86).

They might be using these talk groups instead of the previous documented Education and Training Center talk groups? Will listen for activity on those to confirm.

Based on this today, I went ahead and self-programmed the following:

Academy-81	-	5173
Academy-82	-	5174
Academy-83	-	5175
Academy-84	-	5176
Academy-85	-	5177
Academy-86	-	5178
Acadamy-87	-	5179
Academy-88	-	5180
Academy-89	-	5181

Let's see how I do..

 

[werinshades]

https://wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/firefighter-injured-humboldt-park/

It's these type of incidents where communications is paramount. If anyone else was listening when this happened yesterday evening, the 800 Mhz. trunking system performed flawlessly. Everyone who had to respond was, companies were communicating effectively and didn't hear anyone having issues. Unfortunately, this hasn't been the first time a Mayday was called while this system has been in use, but have been hearing some new dates for the UHF cutover, a couple have already passed. "Soon" is the new term when asked, "don't buy an expensive scanner for the firehouse" is being told...LOL! I hope if/when it happens it's as dependable as this has been. A couple of key strokes and I won't miss a beat!

 

[werinshades]

Some testing between the CTA radio techs on TGID 7101 earlier this morning. Coverage testing by I 294 and I 55 up to I 55 to Cicero.

 

[werinshades]

CTA radio techs testing again (TG 7101)
According to them, they haven't decided on a radio system (They said they are looking at a bunch of options for radio systems, all it takes is money) They were complaining about internal politics (There are conflicts on whether to stay with what they've always done, FMN, vs a digital system, or the OEMC system) Some want the CTA to build its own digital system, but the radio techs think thats a bad idea due to band congestion and the work it takes to maintain lots of towers. (the people that want a digital system on UHF probably due to P25 800Mhz procurement costs)
Apparently CTA has a receive antenna on a bank building in Evanston, thats supposed to be one of the tallest buildings between Chicago to Milwaukee (when it was built).
they say they'll be testing in the north suburbs next week

Some testing between the CTA radio techs on TGID 7101 earlier this morning. Coverage testing by I 294 and I 55 up to I 55 to Cicero.

This system has 18 frequencies on site-1, has the ability to assign talk groups to operate in TDMA (Phase 2), which gives it 34 possible voice paths with 1 frequency assigned as the control channel. I was listening too, but didn't want to post much of what was said because sometimes things we hear are better off not posted since the ability for us to monitor isn't much more than a mouse click away.

I'll agree with some of your assessment however what is in dispute as you heard was that the CTA would join this system and the fear is it would overwhelm the capacity. I'm not sure how many frequencies can be added to a specific site, but the city of Chicago has licensed frequencies not even in use yet: WRAL 921. If I understand the process, since they're the licensee holders, could add frequencies from that license to site-1 much the way they did with unused O'Hare frequencies. The capacity issue shouldn't be much of an issue.

The "catastrophic failure, and everyone has an opinion now" comment probably was referring to something along the lines that they're operating on unlicensed frequencies that was overlooked and now belong to someone else so something has to be done sooner than later...or at least that's what I make of it. The "all we need is something on paper" could have been assigned talk groups by the OEMC and they could get the ball rolling possibly? I highly doubt they would lease a radio system from a private vendor when they have the 800 MHz available and is built out.

I looked up Kenwood portables, and didn't see any that operate in TDMA mode. This could be the other debate. Since the city is Motorola, this would require the CTA to purchase Motorola portables possibly? Writing up the RFP (Request For Purchase) was also mentioned, so it remains to be seen who responds. I'm suspecting CTA is required to put out any bids for new equipment like other city agencies and could take a little more time, or maybe not if it's the normal city vendor if approved.

They're going to finish their own testing on the 800 radio system, write it up that it works and after all the smoke clears, expect them to be using this system in the near future.

 

[Premises2972]

This system has 18 frequencies on site-1, has the ability to assign talk groups to operate in TDMA (Phase 2), which gives it 34 possible voice paths with 1 frequency assigned as the control channel. I was listening too, but didn't want to post much of what was said because sometimes things we hear are better off not posted since the ability for us to monitor isn't much more than a mouse click away.

I'll agree with some of your assessment however what is in dispute as you heard was that the CTA would join this system and the fear is it would overwhelm the capacity. I'm not sure how many frequencies can be added to a specific site, but the city of Chicago has licensed frequencies not even in use yet: WRAL 921. If I understand the process, since they're the licensee holders, could add frequencies from that license to site-1 much the way they did with unused O'Hare frequencies. The capacity issue shouldn't be much of an issue.

The "catastrophic failure, and everyone has an opinion now" comment probably was referring to something along the lines that they're operating on unlicensed frequencies that was overlooked and now belong to someone else so something has to be done sooner than later...or at least that's what I make of it. The "all we need is something on paper" could have been assigned talk groups by the OEMC and they could get the ball rolling possibly? I highly doubt they would lease a radio system from a private vendor when they have the 800 MHz available and is built out.

I looked up Kenwood portables, and didn't see any that operate in TDMA mode. This could be the other debate. Since the city is Motorola, this would require the CTA to purchase Motorola portables possibly? Writing up the RFP (Request For Purchase) was also mentioned, so it remains to be seen who responds. I'm suspecting CTA is required to put out any bids for new equipment like other city agencies and could take a little more time, or maybe not if it's the normal city vendor if approved.

They're going to finish their own testing on the 800 radio system, write it up that it works and after all the smoke clears, expect them to be using this system in the near future.

your assessment seems to be right, my assessment is that this is probably atleast a year out, since they haven't even decided a system for sure yet, and procurement, testing and such takes quite a while. They also said something about finding the best deal, so its possible they are pricing out their options and seeing what would work
Pure speculation, but wouldn't a privately owned system that uses the current UHF portables on DMR be better cost wise than buying thousands of expensive P25 radios?

 

[werinshades]

your assessment seems to be right, my assessment is that this is probably atleast a year out, since they haven't even decided a system for sure yet, and procurement, testing and such takes quite a while. They also said something about finding the best deal, so its possible they are pricing out their options and seeing what would work
Pure speculation, but wouldn't a privately owned system that uses the current UHF portables on DMR be better cost wise than buying thousands of expensive P25 radios?

Think of it another way, the testing is done, the system has been live for awhile now so that's out. They'd have to buy new radios no matter which option they go with. My suspicion is what we know, they're operating on unlicensed frequencies and might have received a notice or a fine already. Building out a system from the ground up would take years which they don't have that option. The trunking system has the coverage they need and purchasing portables would be the most cost effective right now.

 

[belladog9651]

Motorola has been known to offer payment plans for Enterprise users. Radio hardware is already priced statewide via the Starcom contract, regardless if your using Starcom data service. Purchase 3000 radios, spread payback over a 3 or 4 year payback plan.

 

[Premises2972]

Think of it another way, the testing is done, the system has been live for awhile now so that's out. They'd have to buy new radios no matter which option they go with. My suspicion is what we know, they're operating on unlicensed frequencies and might have received a notice or a fine already. Building out a system from the ground up would take years which they don't have that option. The trunking system has the coverage they need and purchasing portables would be the most cost effective right now.

Their current UHF kenwoods (NK3300K2) do support DMR. I was thinking something like the A-Beep or other rental systems being used for their operations

 

[werinshades]

Their current UHF kenwoods (NK3300K2) do support DMR. I was thinking something like the A-Beep or other rental systems being used for their operations

I'm suspecting they'd charge monthly per subscriber radio too. Becomes very expensive to rent air time when they have a cheaper and effective option with a one time purchase of radios and no air time charges. As it was mentioned, Motorola has a discounted payment option which I'm not aware of.

I know this has a lot to do with your equipment you use to monitor and don't own a digital scanner. Something is going to inevitably change and hopefully by then you'll have an SDS scanner or Unication since it's simulcast. You might get lucky with a cheaper option if you find the perfect spot.

For now, it'll be a wait and see. After next week, I wouldn't expect to hear the techs testing since it sounded like they're wrapping that up. I'll keep ID Search on to listen for any new talk groups and will update if I catch something.

 

[Premises2972]

I'm suspecting they'd charge monthly per subscriber radio too. Becomes very expensive to rent air time when they have a cheaper and effective option with a one time purchase of radios and no air time charges. As it was mentioned, Motorola has a discounted payment option which I'm not aware of.

I know this has a lot to do with your equipment you use to monitor and don't own a digital scanner. Something is going to inevitably change and hopefully by then you'll have an SDS scanner or Unication since it's simulcast. You might get lucky with a cheaper option if you find the perfect spot.

For now, it'll be a wait and see. After next week, I wouldn't expect to hear the techs testing since it sounded like they're wrapping that up. I'll keep ID Search on to listen for any new talk groups and will update if I catch something.

yes youre right, that subscription adds up fast.
I wasn't even thinking of my scanning abilities honestly, i mostly use openMHz and im very happy with it until i acquire an SDS100

 

[werinshades]

yes youre right, that subscription adds up fast.
I wasn't even thinking of my scanning abilities honestly, i mostly use openMHz and im very happy with it until i acquire an SDS100

You'll enjoy the scanner and a good choice for this system as well as many others around us.

 

[werinshades]

CTA Radio Techs were testing late this morning in the north burbs on TGID 7101. Glencoe, Wilmette, Kenilworth, were some areas mentioned. Sounded pretty good considering it was portable usage and on a train.

 

[Premises2972]

CTA Radio Techs were testing late this morning in the north burbs on TGID 7101. Glencoe, Wilmette, Kenilworth, were some areas mentioned. Sounded pretty good considering it was portable usage and on a train.

According to them, OEMC800 drops off around Bolingbrook area, WOW

 

[werinshades]

According to them, OEMC800 drops off around Bolingbrook area, WOW

I've monitored the system in Will County, Lake County and traveling down I 53-I 290-I 355 route, so I can concur it has great range.

 

[Premises2972]

I've monitored the system in Will County, Lake County and traveling down I 53-I 290-I 355 route, so I can concur it has great range.

yeah but I think they were talking about transit range was to bolingbrook, which is very impressive

 

[werinshades]

yeah but I think they were talking about transit range was to bolingbrook, which is very impressive

I don't know what transit range is? If I can receive control channel data and transmissions on a scanner, I'm not surprised they can receive that far on a commercial radio.

 

[Premises2972]

I don't know what transit range is? If I can receive control channel data and transmissions on a scanner, I'm not surprised they can receive that far on a commercial radio.

often in my experience you can hear a transmission in receive farther, but the distance where you can key up from a portable is often less