BigLebowski
Member
Neighboring sites... ones that an affiliated radio will roam to next once they move off the site.
Neighboring sites... ones that an affiliated radio will roam to next once they move off the site.
I question which set of frequencies are really the simulcast. Two Warren Co sites have FCC licenses with the same freq, and the other Warren Co sites have different frequencies per site. How many sites are supposed to be in the Warren Simulcast when all is said and done?
1. What you are now seeing as Site 1 is WARR17 Garland according to WQUU666
2. Site 1, Neighbor 2 (159.1275) is WARR34 Kinzua Dam/Warren according to WQVR394
3. Site 1, Neighbor 3 (151.343) is WARR35A Hearts Content/Cobham and WARR37 Warren according to WQUU666
Maybe they brought some sites up standalone initially and now are merging them into a simulcast slowly. Even though the DB labels Site 1 as "Warren Simulcast", does anybody have definitive proof that those are the simulcast frequencies that will be / are in use?
Mike
1-008 with CC 151.25 is likely going to be FORE07 Tylersburg/Guitonville, WQVG590, with freqs:
151.01
151.145
151.25
151.46
Of course, 1-008 might not be online yet.
Mike
Site 1-036 is likely WEST30 Derry, PA (Westmoreland) according to WQVL664, based upon your report of Scenery Hill showing CC of 154.92 (which is on the WQVL664 license).
People in that area of Westmoreland co should give a listen and see if they can find an active P25 CC on 154.92 and report any findings.
Mike
I'm in Erie and really trying to figure this whole thing out. I've been a scanner listener since the 70's, but this is a whole new world to me. I have my 436 set up as best I can, and I'm hearing the encrypted PSP talkgroups and the Game Commission in the clear. But with all this conversation about peers and neighbors and additional sites, I just don't think I have things exactly right. I'd like to contribute as much as possible to this board, so if someone has the time to help me set up my 436 as it should be for Erie, I'd sure appreciate it. You can PM also if you'd prefer.
ka3aaa
Member
If you are hearing clear comms can you id the talk groups and post that information???
troymail
Silent Key
Couple of things to help those who need it.....
First, a "simulcast site" consists of 2 or more "tower/transmitter sites" - all of which use the exact same frequencies.
A non-simulcast site is a single tower/transmitter site.
The thing to keep in mind is that the word "site" could mean one or the other so the context (tower vs. simulcast site) is important.
For Radio Reference database purposes, a "site" could be a standalone/single tower site or a "simulcast" site. In either case, the site is shown as a set of frequencies that is common to that site - be it one tower or ten.
A city or county typically might have 1 or 2 "simulcast sites".
For example, Baltimore City MD is a single simulcast site system that covers the entire jurisdiction. Everything transmitted on that system is transmitted on every tower of the system/site and heard across the entire city.
Prince George County MD has two (primary) simulcast sites - one for the north end and one for the south end of their jurisdiction. However, when you look at the towers, you'll see lots of "tower sites".... half are part of the "North simulcast site" and the other half are all part of the "South simulcast site". In many ways (but not all), these two simulcast sites function almost like two completely different (but linked) systems with the exception that each "simulcast site" uses it's own set of frequencies. You won't necessarily hear all of the same talkgroups and users on both sites. At times you will but not consistently.
Some larger systems (like a statewide system) can contain a mixture of "standalone sites" (non-simulcast) and "simulcast sites".
"Neighbors" refers to the information transmitted in the control channel for any given "site" that tells the radio "hey, if you lose the currently control channel signal, here are the control channel frequencies for neighboring sites that you can check." In the Prince George example above, if a unit on the north simulcast site travels south and moves near to or into the south simulcast site coverage area, that radio might decide the the coverage is better on the "other site" and automatically switch over from north to south (if allowed).
Hopefully, this clears things up a bit.
First, a "simulcast site" consists of 2 or more "tower/transmitter sites" - all of which use the exact same frequencies.
A non-simulcast site is a single tower/transmitter site.
The thing to keep in mind is that the word "site" could mean one or the other so the context (tower vs. simulcast site) is important.
For Radio Reference database purposes, a "site" could be a standalone/single tower site or a "simulcast" site. In either case, the site is shown as a set of frequencies that is common to that site - be it one tower or ten.
A city or county typically might have 1 or 2 "simulcast sites".
For example, Baltimore City MD is a single simulcast site system that covers the entire jurisdiction. Everything transmitted on that system is transmitted on every tower of the system/site and heard across the entire city.
Prince George County MD has two (primary) simulcast sites - one for the north end and one for the south end of their jurisdiction. However, when you look at the towers, you'll see lots of "tower sites".... half are part of the "North simulcast site" and the other half are all part of the "South simulcast site". In many ways (but not all), these two simulcast sites function almost like two completely different (but linked) systems with the exception that each "simulcast site" uses it's own set of frequencies. You won't necessarily hear all of the same talkgroups and users on both sites. At times you will but not consistently.
Some larger systems (like a statewide system) can contain a mixture of "standalone sites" (non-simulcast) and "simulcast sites".
"Neighbors" refers to the information transmitted in the control channel for any given "site" that tells the radio "hey, if you lose the currently control channel signal, here are the control channel frequencies for neighboring sites that you can check." In the Prince George example above, if a unit on the north simulcast site travels south and moves near to or into the south simulcast site coverage area, that radio might decide the the coverage is better on the "other site" and automatically switch over from north to south (if allowed).
Hopefully, this clears things up a bit.
Only hearing the Game Commission on TG12000 in the clear. They did refer to Presque Isle at one point.
You must be doing something right if you are receiving PSP & GC. I have the Erie and Presque Isle sites programmed on separate scan lists. Unless you are going mobile to Northeast or the southern area of the county that is all you need. The only clear voice I have logged is testing on PENNDOT, TGs 11592 & 11715 and PGC TGs 12000 thru 12007. Don't be to concerned about neighboring site info, as mentioned that is operational info for the system, although that is how I discovered the Presque Isle site. Truth be told I have both sites locked out most of the time now. I Run Pro96Com periodically to check for new sites and non PSP talk groups.
016 Presque Isle (ERIE40)
Only neighbor is
011 Erie (ERIE80) 151.415
Only neighbor is
011 Erie (ERIE80) 151.415
I won't have access to my scanner till next week, so then I'll double check my setup regarding both sites.
Getting the site neighbor info is how folks can sniff out new sites not currently listed in the database. As the system is built out and sites are brought online, folks can use the site neighbor reports available from certain software, to locate new or not yet listed sites. This has been very useful for folks over in NJ trying to map out the new statewide system over there.
As for the Warren County stuff, what is in the database could be wrong. Reportedly, because Warren County is going to join the system, a three site simulcast was to be built near the city of Warren (the most populated part of that county) to provide better on street and in building coverage for local emergency services. The Warren simulcast is supposed to be in addition to the original state plan of three tower sites. One of those three original sites was supposed to be turned into the simulcast for enhanced coverage. This is why ground truthing from local monitors is always helpful.
As for the Warren County stuff, what is in the database could be wrong. Reportedly, because Warren County is going to join the system, a three site simulcast was to be built near the city of Warren (the most populated part of that county) to provide better on street and in building coverage for local emergency services. The Warren simulcast is supposed to be in addition to the original state plan of three tower sites. One of those three original sites was supposed to be turned into the simulcast for enhanced coverage. This is why ground truthing from local monitors is always helpful.
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jeffm77
Member
The Westmoreland county site is not on the air yet, 154.935, however cw ids. Nothing on 154.920.
So site 8 is online then? I am just curious to know that all the site freqs were verified online because from what I am seeing not every site has had every freq enabled yet. Nothing from ekim223 or mtindor suggested that site 8 was even operational.
Just because a site is advertised as a neighbor doesn't mean it's online. I am seeing site 21 advertised and is most likely Darlington (BEAV01) but it is not online yet. Point is, freqs shouldn't be added until they are verified operational. I'm suggesting that any site that has multiple freqs but only the control channel identified are wrong and the other freqs were just added from license info. For instance, I've been parked on site 34 with DSD+ all week and they are only using the CC and alternate freq at the moment. We shouldn't add license freqs until we know.
Just because a site is advertised as a neighbor doesn't mean it's online. I am seeing site 21 advertised and is most likely Darlington (BEAV01) but it is not online yet. Point is, freqs shouldn't be added until they are verified operational. I'm suggesting that any site that has multiple freqs but only the control channel identified are wrong and the other freqs were just added from license info. For instance, I've been parked on site 34 with DSD+ all week and they are only using the CC and alternate freq at the moment. We shouldn't add license freqs until we know.
Correct. Nobody has stated / verified that Site 8 is online yet. I just stated that when it comes online, it's almost certainly going to be FORE07, Guitonville, or as the PA*NET techs would call it, Tylersburg.
Mike
Mike
Sorry, I thought you guys meant Guitonville was online. Jumped the gun on that. Although, it would make sense to be online since it likely gives coverage into part of Warren County. Plus, the Clarion site, like the Guitonville site, is in the Troop C area (tail end of the project) but provides coverage into the NW first migration area of the project. I thought that if the site was shown as a neighbor that it was active.
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Yeah it is odd that a site would advertise offline neighbors. I would assume otherwise too if it wasn't for all the sites advertising the Darlington site which i know is offline.
I wonder if this was seen in Ohio when MARCS-IP was being built mtindor?
I'm also iffy on adding inactive freqs on a site since that maybe has an effect on Whistler scanners? I'm not sure since I don't own any. Not sure why they are starting sites up with only two freqs, but locally that looks like the pattern here near me.
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For anyone who never saw it, here is the most recent public hearing on the radio system:
Joint Hearing on the Statewide Radio System - Communications & Technology Committee
This was an update provided back in June, 2017.
Joint Hearing on the Statewide Radio System - Communications & Technology Committee
This was an update provided back in June, 2017.
I can't remember if I saw it on MARCS-IP before, but I probably did. When FELHC VHF P25 was coming online, I remember many times where new sites showed neighbors that weren't actually online I knew that because after the fact when the neighbors came online I could hear them.
Is a Whistler crippled on P25 as well (meaning, does it not follow the CC data on P25 either)? I thought we were supposed to not cater to one particular manufacturer / type of scanner.
Mike
Mike I don't know if it affects the Whistlers or not, but either way it's still putting unverified data in the db in my mind. It's just as easy to wait and see I think.
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