RadioReference receives a Cease and Desist Demand from the Civil Air Patrol

[szron]

I would think their use of "United States Air Force Auxiliary" on their seal means they are assuming "United States Government" status.

The are assuming government role when it's good for them and they are assuming private role when they want to claim copy wright.



Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

 

[blantonl]

I hope the lawyers representing this web site get a judge who laughs at them, the CAP. Boy oh boy!

This issue really isn't worth our time and effort - thus the compliance with the request (demand). Kind of like a "whatever, we'll remove the document from our site "

If they asked us to remove frequencies, data, etc then we'd dig out the lawyers to ultimately tell them about the first amendment.

 

[blantonl]

With that said - CAP is going to learn all about the Streisand Effect

Streisand effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[INDY72]

*Deleted* Not worth wasting time.... Another layer of gov onions..... Its an Officially unofficial part of military but its not and part of DHS but its not because its an 501 C3 organization.... ANYWAYYYYYY

 

[Confuzzled]

Email from Skip at News of the Force about this thread;


Additionally, the law is that any government corporation or agency which receives federal funds cannot "copyright" anything. The theory is that if it is created by or used by such a corporation or agency, it's in the public domain and does not require copyright release, because it was created by and/or is being used by a federally-funded (i.e., with taxpayers' dollars) agency.

That's more or less what I was referring to earlier.

Sounds like some occifer wannabee got his panties in a wad without knowing they weren't silk.

 

[Sile]

That is utterly ridiculous. I was in Civil Air Patrol for over ten years. There is nothing "secret" about the CAP communications plan--we're not an intelligence agency for God's sake--and furthermore, a central role of Civil Air Patrol is search and rescue, which could only be *aided* by having more people aware of the communications structure. I'd like to know from whose office this "order" originated.

 

[Ronaldski]

Just an FYI as not all know what it stands for,

For Official Use Only (FOUO)

 

[N2JDS]

With that said - CAP is going to learn all about the Streisand Effect

Streisand effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wow, sure glad you posted a link to that, thought you were making up new legal terms.

No disrespect to them at all because I'm sure the have a LOT of great people volunteering with teaching the young about aviation and other activities, but how come we never hear about their activities, I'm understanding they are the authority on downed aircraft air searches on US soil. Or is their activity alone top secret?
Again, please no flaming, just wonder why we never hear about them until they attack RR with (il)legal threats.

 

[Confuzzled]

I'd like to know from whose office this "order" originated.

Whoever you are, if you're reading, all you've done is bring disfavor on CAP, put it in a negative light and make it appear to be a bunch of pompous twits.

Is that what you were going for?

 

[SCPD]

Does any radio manufacturer produce a CAP only radio?

Don't most CAP operators "Modify" Amateur transceivers to transmit on CAP assignments?

From their own website, in 2003 CAP contracted with EFJ for the 5300 P25 VHF radio.

Last I checked, P25, VHF and the Johnson 5300 were all available to the Licensed General Public. The frequencies are common knowledge coming from Scanner enthusiasts networking together to create a list. We on RadioReference.com unite to share information and create lists and then post the list for our friends to see .... I believe that's legal still. It's not like there is any classified information.

Does the CAP Own those frequencies which they have been allocated to operate on? If they were owned by the CAP then I could see them making a stink. If Radioreference.com were selling the PDF document, I could see a stink. But the information was legally obtained, not being sold, a matter of Public record (FCC Allocations), I'd tell the CAP to jump off a mountain without a propeller ....

 

[QDP2012]

...how come we never hear about their activities, ...?

It is probably like a lot of other volunteer/support organizations in this country--they are not the first to get dispatched to an incident, and are therefore not the first to get their name in the news. Across the country, when primary organizations respond to emergencies, disasters, etc. secondary organizations can be added as allowed by MOUs or other agreements. The primary agency is the one that implements a PIO protocol, controls and gets the news coverage, etc., which means that not much news coverage is placed on the others working "behind-the-scenes". Having seen this in other organizations, I'm guessing it also applies to CAP.

Hope this helps,

 

[dcr_inc]

CAP used to be the authority on aircraft search and rescue.. Today, the ELT and EPIRB's have gotten sophisticated enough to give exact coordinates of the downed aircraft as well as the N# and pilot/owners name in a data packet.. Their True search and "rescue" mission ended about 10 years ago.. They do however, train deserving Cadets how to fly at a drastically reduced cost.. As for the Freqs, they are DoD freqs assigned by the DoD for their use..
I agree with Blanton, It ain't worth the time or energy to worry about CAP..
And Yes, They do look like a bunch of ID 10 T's over this..

 

[walruspwaterhead]

want them?

Well they can't stop us from sharing these freq's anyone want them let me know

 

[ecps92]

They have been in the Wiki since they went Narrowband and Dual Mode

Well they can't stop us from sharing these freq's anyone want them let me know

 

[E-Man]

They maybe eye sight and botany challenged, but they sure provide for the most entertaining monitoring. Lets not shake things up too much.

 

[wuzafuzz]

All the heartburn and placing of blame is unfortunate. Anyone who read the initial email from CAP will notice it was gracious and explains the frequency rules come from the Air Force. CAP has to comply with those rules or risk punitive measures.

Apparently the legal letter only came after Radio Reference either didn't notice the original request, ignored it, or decided not to play well with other children. Unfortunately the letter from the lawyer wasn't nearly as nice as the original email.

Yeah, I'm a CAP member. It's rewarding, a lot of fun, and lets me play with radios. But there are a few strings attached. Show me an organization that doesn't have those. If the rules ever become too onerous I'll leave on good terms.

BTW, there are still a lot of 121.5 ELT's out there. FAA never mandated adoption of 406 beacons (some of those broadcast coordinates, some don't) so lots of pilots don't have them. They are expensive and the track record isn't as great as advertised. Some pilots have started using things like SPOT beacons instead. (I use one for hiking, off-roading, and the occasional plane ride.) SAR still happens, but is declining.

Anyway, if you just gotta throw stones, the Air Force is a bigger target and is the source of the rules on this issue.

 

[Ensnared]

CAP Drugs?

Here is a link about CAP being involved in horticultural assessment. I'm sure they're helping count plants relative to crop distribution & ways to improve growing: http://forums.radioreference.com/ok...orum/156350-s-oklahoma-drug-interdiction.html

 

[Confuzzled]

Yeah, I'm a CAP member. It's rewarding, a lot of fun, and lets me play with radios.

Try as you might to make them sound 'official', I see them as a social or fraternal organization somewhere between the Boy Scouts and the ROTC, but certainly not as any kind of authority.

For that matter, I wasn't even sure they still existed. At one time, they were looked on as sort of the 'R.E.A.C.T.' of the air, if you're familiar with them.

 

[SDOG]

CAP letters

I think the "General Counsel" needs to go back to school and be re-educated on proper grammar. As a retired USAF member, I am a little ashamed of the image that is being projected by the CAP.

 

[flythunderbird]

How is it "Civil Air Patrol Copyright Infringement" when it came from the United States Government. ?

While I can't speak specifically to the CAP claim, I can speak to the copyright issue vis-a-vis the US government in a broader sense since I've developed computer software for the government.

While writing software for a government agency, my development team ran into this very issue. We requested a legal opinion, and we were told by government attorneys that the government can't make copyright claims because anything that could be copyrighted is funded by the public and is therefore owned by the public.

That being said, the government can make certain things off limits to the public for reasons of national security, situations which fall under the Privacy Act of 1974, etc. Making things off-limits is different from copyright, though ...