Rockford Police Going Fully Encrypted

[skinnyb82]

This is as just as much about CYA as the old eavesdropping statute that made it a Class 4 felony to record a law enforcement officer while on duty when there is zero expectation of privacy. That was also for officer safety. Safe from what? "We don't want you (insert completely legal activity here)." Sounds like it's meant to mitigate the risk of having a 42 USC Sec. 1983 action filed against the agency and/or individual officers for (insert protected right or rights infringed upon under the color of law). Since that garbage was put down, I've noticed that LEOs now won't even think of pulling the same garbage as they did when it was illegal to record them. Then again, there was an aggravated battery conviction vacated by the appellate court in my district after police seized every phone from everyone at the scene and proceeded to destroy the footage of the crime, thereby ruining her chance at a fair trial, but no one who was recording was actually arrested. I digress.

The "this crime was really this crime because we want our stats to look better than they are," well, Chicago pulls the same crap on an entirely different level and therefore cannot even report crime stats because its "methods" (an apple is an orange, and also maybe a pear, but who knows) do not meet FBI standards.

I'm all for officer safety, but complete encryption is not only unnecessary but its main "benefit" is the very law enforcement agency that is already in trouble. It's CYA. And inter-agency communication is neutered by this kind of thing. Encryption should be reserved for tactical teams who are in the sensitive phase of a call out where it's critical that their position not be broadcast to the world.

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[gewecke]

Correct Skinny, but unfortunately Rockford, nor the city pd 43 miles west of Rockford cares until there's an event where they request help from the public, then it will be something like "Oh yeah, they CAN'T help because they can't hear us Oops." Water under the bridge now, as they used to say. :roll: 73, n9zas

 

[scraech]

5 U.S.C. § 552, is a federal freedom of information law that allows for the full or partial disclosure of previously unreleased information and documents controlled by the United States government. This includes Rockford Police. So print out the form fill it out and request those encrypted radio traffic transmission's. Don't let a hobby die to advancements in technology. Send a 64gb flash drive or larger with your request(s) FYI

 

[gewecke]

5 U.S.C. § 552, is a federal freedom of information law that allows for the full or partial disclosure of previously unreleased information and documents controlled by the United States government. This includes Rockford Police. So print out the form fill it out and request those encrypted radio traffic transmission's. Don't let a hobby die to advancements in technology. Send a 64gb flash drive or larger with your request(s) FYI

No offense, but I think in many cases you'll simply be donating a flash drive to someone who needs one. Trying to talk sense into them After the deed is already done, will simply fall on deaf ears. :roll: 73, n9zas

 

[ChrisABQ]

If the current environment within the country was not so hostile (because of the current administration) maybe departments would not feel so threatened. My police department (Albuquerque) is currently under federal investigation, and except for sensitive channels like swat and narc, they have remained un-encrypted thus far. Police departments need to be transparent, they are responsible to the taxpayer after all. Hopefully, within the near future, police will not have to be so defensive of their communications and will be more open. They do have the ability to change at any time.

 

[Rockford_IL]

RPD has a small number of 700MHz frequencies that are used simplex for investigations, with the exception of the helo investigation/search comms being on Starcom (usually an ISP talkgroup). Those are un-encrypted P25. I doubt we'll see Phase 2 anytime soon though; the vast majority of subscribers are XTS2500 Model 2 portables and XTL2500 Mobiles. Although, Swedes has an APX6000 at the Triage ER desk for interop.

 

[gewecke]

RPD has a small number of 700MHz frequencies that are used simplex for investigations, with the exception of the helo investigation/search comms being on Starcom (usually an ISP talkgroup). Those are un-encrypted P25. I doubt we'll see Phase 2 anytime soon though; the vast majority of subscribers are XTS2500 Model 2 portables and XTL2500 Mobiles. Although, Swedes has an APX6000 at the Triage ER desk for interop.

I agree. For P2 to happen, it would take a lot of Apx and Atl's to materialize. 73, n9zas

 

[Raccon]

Encryption would not be effective if there were devices that possesed the correct keys to break the encryption , other than the target radios they were intended for. I'm sure you imagine there are magical devices that will instantly pick the correct algorythm out of 10,000,000 possible keys but there's really not. There's the loader with a selected combination and the target radio, that's it. That's Why its secure, because there aren't any secret devices to be lost or stolen to compromise those radios. Only keyloaders, which don't decrypt. Occasionally a radios key will become corrupted and not function with others in the group. It happens here occasionally. The key is simply reloaded, or the radio is repaired. Or a New key is assigned to All the radios in the group on a preset schedule. If you know of such a magical device which can cypher through millions of combinations, other than a Quantum terminal, Please enlighten us? . 73, n9zas

I never said that the device breaks the encryption, in fact I already stated in a previous response to you:

Obviously there is some device involved that has the correct key for this.

If the key is already there I wouldn't still need to break it, would I?

Or in other words, the device is legit and there for a purpose, it has been loaded with the correct key or keys, namely to allow dispatchers to participate in end to end encrypted calls or voice recorders to playback encrypted recordings

Anyway, the point I was making is that many public safety organisations record their calls and that encrypted calls are technically retrievable in many cases, so the "secret police" may not be that secret as brian943 thinks.

 

[skinnyb82]

I may be a noob when it comes to radio tech, but I do understand how encryption algorithms function and it's very safe to say that it would be impossible to brute force the key. It's already next to impossible to crack AES, DES. The algorithms (whichever one they decide to use) are effectively secure, not "crackable." Not sure if they can use rolling keys, doubt it but that would ensure the no brute force attack would be successful.

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[gewecke]

I may be a noob when it comes to radio tech, but I do understand how encryption algorithms function and it's very safe to say that it would be impossible to brute force the key. It's already next to impossible to crack AES, DES. The algorithms (whichever one they decide to use) are effectively secure, not "crackable." Not sure if they can use rolling keys, doubt it but that would ensure the no brute force attack would be successful.

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Good comment. Welcome to RR, you're not that far from me I see. . 73, n9zas

 

[skinnyb82]

Not far from you, yet still in the middle of nowhere hah. About 45 min drive to QC, Peoria, or Macomb. Was listening to all of the Labor Day idiocy here last night, what a hoot.

Side note while we're on the subject of encryption, I see Macomb PD dispatch and WIU OPS dispatch have gone full encryption. That disturbs me due to the sheer amount of excessive force and official misconduct complaints filed by students during my time down there. Roommate was arrested for theft of police property (Lieutenant on duty told the officer to "find a felony, I don't care how long it takes") after a rookie left a PBT at my house after they broke up a party, found it and tried to return it. Ends up getting charged with a felony, then dropped to misdemeanor, then dismissed completely. They threw $750 in citations at me for buying a keg which I did not buy, refused to buy because I knew what would happen, lawyered the city attorney and he dropped everything. That same night a K9 officer also walked into my neighbor's house without so much as a knock, wandered into the living room, looking around. No warrant, nothing in the Exclusionary Rule to justify warrantless entry into his home. I digress. Encrypted talkgroups for MPD/OPS dispatch are completely unnecessary as what "bad guy" (or drunk driver) is gonna bother to get a DMR capable scanner and monitor their dispatch? Bottom line, this unnecessary encryption crap reeks of lack of transparency.

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[Awesomeman92]

Not far from you, yet still in the middle of nowhere hah. About 45 min drive to QC, Peoria, or Macomb. Was listening to all of the Labor Day idiocy here last night, what a hoot.

Side note while we're on the subject of encryption, I see Macomb PD dispatch and WIU OPS dispatch have gone full encryption. That disturbs me due to the sheer amount of excessive force and official misconduct complaints filed by students during my time down there. Roommate was arrested for theft of police property (Lieutenant on duty told the officer to "find a felony, I don't care how long it takes") after a rookie left a PBT at my house after they broke up a party, found it and tried to return it. Ends up getting charged with a felony, then dropped to misdemeanor, then dismissed completely. They threw $750 in citations at me for buying a keg which I did not buy, refused to buy because I knew what would happen, lawyered the city attorney and he dropped everything. That same night a K9 officer also walked into my neighbor's house without so much as a knock, wandered into the living room, looking around. No warrant, nothing in the Exclusionary Rule to justify warrantless entry into his home. I digress. Encrypted talkgroups for MPD/OPS dispatch are completely unnecessary as what "bad guy" (or drunk driver) is gonna bother to get a DMR capable scanner and monitor their dispatch? Bottom line, this unnecessary encryption crap reeks of lack of transparency.

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McDonough County is likely next, they just got their license amended for the sheriff to include DMR, and I was told by someone that would know that everyone except for probably the smaller towns that have their own repeaters and can't afford to upgrade (Colchester, Blandinsville, and Bushnell, although I'm not sure if Blandinsville is DB Central) will switch to DMR by the end of the year, although that timeline could have changed. Macomb FD is already licensed for DMR on their new repeater but don't use it yet. WIU maintenance and recreation, etc., isn't digital yet but likely will be IMO in the next couple years. Glad I finished and got out of there this summer when I could still hear at least most of what was going on.

 

[gewecke]

Sorry you went through all that, Skinny. A few tips might have helped would I have known you. 1. Remote cams to watch entrance & egress. 2. A separate address on records, but NOT where you sleep. 3. A lawyer on retainer 4. Legal posession for a weapon(s), note the same for #2. :wink: 73, n9zas

 

[WX9RLT]

5 U.S.C. § 552, is a federal freedom of information law that allows for the full or partial disclosure of previously unreleased information and documents controlled by the United States government. This includes Rockford Police. So print out the form fill it out and request those encrypted radio traffic transmission's. Don't let a hobby die to advancements in technology. Send a 64gb flash drive or larger with your request(s) FYI

I have filed a FOIA each day starting from August 1st 2016.

Not one reply back from them. NOT ONE!



Have filed similar requests with the other area local departments and had content in hand within 3 days.

Today is Sept. 5th. So over a month and nothing from the Rockford police department



Many people have turned a blind eye on things now, because the police encrypting. They said you want to shut the scanners off from the public, you can do your own work. They aren't helping the RPD anymore. Poop on the public by encrypting, then ask for the publics help....

Many criminals are taking advantage of the encryption, knowing the public can not hear and turn them in and refusing to help RPD. So armed robberies are happening like crazy these days

They said they would release information via social media, blotter, etc....
There are MANY 10'68's we heard on ISP, and VERY FEW of them the RPD make public.

You can follow Rockford Scanner on FB, and you can see in the comments area just how many citizens are against the encryption ~ https://www.facebook.com/Rockford-Scanner-214732295205455

 

[gewecke]

I don't do the Fakebook thing, but I do read the register star, and I noticed Several of the County calls don't make the paper either. Not even the routine calls. So much for media transparency I guess. Good luck with your FOIA request but I wouldn't put much faith in it. :roll: 73, n9zas

 

[Chicago2210]

I have filed a FOIA each day starting from August 1st 2016.

Not one reply back from them. NOT ONE!



Have filed similar requests with the other area local departments and had content in hand within 3 days.

Today is Sept. 5th. So over a month and nothing from the Rockford police department



Many people have turned a blind eye on things now, because the police encrypting. They said you want to shut the scanners off from the public, you can do your own work. They aren't helping the RPD anymore. Poop on the public by encrypting, then ask for the publics help....

Many criminals are taking advantage of the encryption, knowing the public can not hear and turn them in and refusing to help RPD. So armed robberies are happening like crazy these days

They said they would release information via social media, blotter, etc....
There are MANY 10'68's we heard on ISP, and VERY FEW of them the RPD make public.

You can follow Rockford Scanner on FB, and you can see in the comments area just how many citizens are against the encryption ~ https://www.facebook.com/Rockford-Scanner-214732295205455

Have you tried doing this
Submit - Rockford, IL - Rockford Register Star or going to a city council meeting and bringing it up during public comment?

 

[WX9RLT]

Yeah, but it was a lost cause

 

[JD21960]

10/1/2016 Ridiculous

Winnebago/Rockford updated today. ----------------------------------
1714 6b2 E Winn Ops1714 Operations Law Tac
1715 6b3 E Winn 1715 E Operations Law Tac
1716 6b4 E Winn Ops1716 Operations Law Tac
1717 6b5 E Winn 1717 E Operations Law Tac
1719 6b7 E Winn Ops1719 Rockford Police or Winnebago Co - Encrypted Law Tac
1720 6b8 E Winn Ops1720 Operations Law Tac
1724 6bc E Winn Ops1724 Rockford Police or Winnebago Co - Encrypted Law Tac
1725 6bd E Winn Ops7125 Operations Law Tac
1729 6c1 E Winn Ops1729 Operations (testing 7/13) Multi-Tac
1735 6c7 E Winn Ops1735 Operations Multi-Tac
1736 6c8 E Winn Ops1736 Operations Multi-Tac
1701 6a5 E RockPDCntrl1 Rockford Police Control 1 - City West Law Dispatch
1702 6a6 E RockPDCntrl2 Rockford Police Control 2 - City East Law Dispatch
1703 6a7 E RockPD 1703 Rockford Police 10-28s Law Dispatch
1705 6a9 E RockPDCntrl5 Rockford Police Control 5 - Detectives / Traffic Law Tac
1706 6aa E RockPD 1706 Rockford Police Operations Law Tac
1707 6ab E RockPD-1707E Rockford Police Operations Law Tac
1709 6ad E RockPD-1709E Rockford Police Operations Law Tac
1751 6d7 E Rkfd Park PD Rockford Park District Police Law Tac
1726 6be E Rckfd FirePG Rockford Fire Paging (Simulcast of 151.175 CSQ) Fire Dispatch
3421 d5d E RokValCollge Rock Valley College Public Safety Schools
3424 d60 E RokValCol 16 Rock Valley College Public Safety "16" Schools
All encrypted. Utterly ridiculous, Especially the fire calls and RVC "security" who just sit out front and run speed traps all day.