Senator Becker re-introduces law enforcement radio encryption bill (SB 719)

[mmckenna]

it's always about reasonableness.

It is, and about controlling what you can control. Broadcasting law enforcement radio traffic related to PII/CJI to the general public is something that CAN be easily controlled

It's been 30+ years since I did a ride along, but I seem to recall having to sign some paperwork about not suing them, staying out of the way, and not messing around with the details of individuals.

Next point, this forum is a form of media so unless you don't like this forum you can't say you don't like "the media". Without "the media" you would likely not even know about this bill right now. Media plays an important role in our society, just because some of them do a not so good job at it doesn't mean all media is bad. You could say this same thing for just about everything in life.

Exactly.

 

[ecps92]

It is, and about controlling what you can control. Broadcasting law enforcement radio traffic related to PII/CJI to the general public is something that CAN be easily controlled

It's been 30+ years since I did a ride along, but I seem to recall having to sign some paperwork about not suing them, staying out of the way, and not messing around with the details of individuals.




Exactly.

Typical NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement)

 

[GROL]

How do they deal with ride-alongs, sit-alongs, police car with the window down? It's impossible to prevent every instance of PII release. As long as a department is taking due care to prevent it they will be okay at the end of the day. You can nitpick the letter of the law for ever but when it comes down to it it's always about reasonableness.

Next point, this forum is a form of media so unless you don't like this forum you can't say you don't like "the media". Without "the media" you would likely not even know about this bill right now. Media plays an important role in our society, just because some of them do a not so good job at it doesn't mean all media is bad. You could say this same thing for just about everything in life.

Edit; There are always people who will think different than you, that's what makes this world great. For me I will be doing everything I can to get this law amended to make better sense and then passed, including putting my money where it's needed.

Media is critical and protected in the constitution. I have no problem at all with having a media, but wouldn't it be nice if they were honest and reported on just what happened without slant, and keep their opinions to themselves. They don't need editorials any longer, plenty of their opinion is in everything they report. Just the facts mam!

 

[scannerboy02]

Typical NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement)

The law would require each agency to come up with a policy for allowing media access, nothing says part of that policy can't include a NDA of some kind, of course you can debate if the media could be held to the terms of a NDA but that would be for the courts to decide.

If the media doesn't like the terms of the policy they don't get access. The law only says they have to make it available, if someone doesn't like the way it's being made available take it to court.

 

[scannerboy02]

Media is critical and protected in the constitution. I have no problem at all with having a media, but wouldn't it be nice if they were honest and reported on just what happened without slant, and keep their opinions to themselves. They don't need editorials any longer, plenty of their opinion is in everything they report. Just the facts mam!

I've been reporting on nothing but public safety news for almost 30 years now, I never included my opinion in my official reporting. I included my video and information about the incident and that's it. Again, not EVERYONE does it the way you're saying they do it.

 

[2wayfreq]

Also, once they have heavily encrypted including dispatch, good luck making the agencies undo it. The reasoning would be that they have spent a fortune programming it all in, they could not see the justification in wasting the investment. They won't give up inaccessible secure comms without being forced.

 

[GROL]

I've been reporting on nothing but public safety news for almost 30 years now, I never included my opinion in my official reporting. I included my video and information about the incident and that's it. Again, not EVERYONE does it the way you're saying they do it.

I watch the news same as everyone else. You are an exception among the multitudes.

 

[PrivatelyJeff]

Information related to a person's medical history, condition and identity. Law enforcement on the scene runs a records check. They provide the person's name and DOB to dispatch. Information returns about that person's identity possibly confirming their address. The person needed medical care, EMS is on the scene. They exchange information OTA regarding the patients medical condition and possibly medical history. Which is why in some areas EMS is encrypted as well. Maybe not dispatch, but channels to hospitals, etc. All of which is supposed to be guarded according to HIPAA. I hear such scenarios frequently.

I regularly monitor my regions EMS dispatch system and they have never committed a HIPAA violation on the radio. History and condition are not protected when the name is withheld, which is always. Your name has nothing to do with dispatches or hospital call-ins. If law enforcement is running you in relation to the medical call as well, that’s not a HIPAA violation either because they are not discussing your medical info. The only violations are when BOTH your protected medical information AND your personal identity information are disclosed together to someone who shouldn’t have it, that why medical workers can talk about patients to anyone as long as they don’t disclose who the patient is. “I had a guy today who got his junk stuck in a vacuum” is ok, “Paster Jones was in today with junk stuck in a vacuum” isn’t.

 

[GROL]

I regularly monitor my regions EMS dispatch system and they have never committed a HIPAA violation on the radio. History and condition are not protected when the name is withheld, which is always. Your name has nothing to do with dispatches or hospital call-ins. If law enforcement is running you in relation to the medical call as well, that’s not a HIPAA violation either because they are not discussing your medical info. The only violations are when BOTH your protected medical information AND your personal identity information are disclosed together to someone who shouldn’t have it, that why medical workers can talk about patients to anyone as long as they don’t disclose who the patient is. “I had a guy today who got his junk stuck in a vacuum” is ok, “Paster Jones was in today with junk stuck in a vacuum” isn’t.

I often hear names of people involved with Law enforcement then become involved with EMS so the name is revealed as in the scenario I outlined. Is it a HIPAA issue, don't know but it sure does give out private otherwise protected information. If I was a criminal type I could also collect a lot of phone numbers with names as well and not have to pay for them online. I do not hear EMS give out names often, but I have heard that happen.

 

[mmckenna]

I regularly monitor my regions EMS dispatch system and they have never committed a HIPAA violation on the radio. History and condition are not protected when the name is withheld, which is always. Your name has nothing to do with dispatches or hospital call-ins. If law enforcement is running you in relation to the medical call as well, that’s not a HIPAA violation either because they are not discussing your medical info. The only violations are when BOTH your protected medical information AND your personal identity information are disclosed together to someone who shouldn’t have it, that why medical workers can talk about patients to anyone as long as they don’t disclose who the patient is. “I had a guy today who got his junk stuck in a vacuum” is ok, “Paster Jones was in today with junk stuck in a vacuum” isn’t.

Excellent point.
The CJI/PII thing is the same way. There are certain combinations of information that are not permitted to be shared in the clear. Problem is, it's difficult to meet those requirements.

Easy solution is encryption. Takes away the issue with unauthorized people having access to the data.

One solution that often goes overlooked is CAD feeds. CHP does this, and seems to effectively filter out any protected information. And they've been doing it for years. It is available on the internets for anyone to see.
Sharing appropriately sanitized CAD data would be a nearly real time option.

 

[PrivatelyJeff]

I often hear names of people involved with Law enforcement then become involved with EMS so the name is revealed as in the scenario I outlined. Is it a HIPAA issue, don't know but it sure does give out private otherwise protected information. If I was a criminal type I could also collect a lot of phone numbers with names as well and not have to pay for them online. I do not hear EMS give out names often, but I have heard that happen.

Still not a violation. The police are not covered entities in that scenario. They are acting in a law enforcement action, not a medical one. I worked in EMS, am still certified and routinely train with various EMS, fire, law enforcement and hospital emergency departments and probably have had more HIPAA training than most people.

 

[PrivatelyJeff]

Excellent point.
The CJI/PII thing is the same way. There are certain combinations of information that are not permitted to be shared in the clear. Problem is, it's difficult to meet those requirements.

Easy solution is encryption. Takes away the issue with unauthorized people having access to the data.

One solution that often goes overlooked is CAD feeds. CHP does this, and seems to effectively filter out any protected information. And they've been doing it for years. It is available on the internets for anyone to see.
Sharing appropriately sanitized CAD data would be a nearly real time option.

Yep. One idea I had was encryption handled on the dispatch side of things because stuff like license plate numbers aren’t protected info but they info they are attached to is, so the officer can call in a plate, the dispatcher can enable encryption on their end to send the return to the officer, then disable it (yeah, yeah, I’m sure they would all complain that they are busy enough ).

The problem with CHP is even that’s not entirely accurate. I’ve compared what they said to what’s in the CAD and they don’t always matchup or can be serious delays, though I would like if it was used by more agencies.

 

[mmckenna]

The problem with CHP is even that’s not entirely accurate. I’ve compared what they said to what’s in the CAD and they don’t always matchup or can be serious delays, though I would like if it was used by more agencies.

Yeah, but better than nothing.

 

[dlwtrunked]

Senator Becker's SB 719 requires law enforcement agencies to provide real time non-tactical radio communications access to authorized media representatives or organizations.

Bill Text - SB-719 Law enforcement agencies: radio communications.

The media should not have any rights that citizens do not. We did not elect them to special status.
Who establishes "authorized media"--good luck on that.

 

[scannerboy02]

The media should not have any rights that citizens do not. We did not elect them to special status.
Who establishes "authorized media"--good luck on that.

So the general public should be allowed into the White House briefing room? The general public should be allowed to fly with the Blue Angels when they come to town?

The media is given special access to lots of things beyond that of the general public, and it's for good reason.

 

[ecps92]

The law would require each agency to come up with a policy for allowing media access, nothing says part of that policy can't include a NDA of some kind, of course you can debate if the media could be held to the terms of a NDA but that would be for the courts to decide.

If the media doesn't like the terms of the policy they don't get access. The law only says they have to make it available, if someone doesn't like the way it's being made available take it to court.

Not sure why you quoted me

My reply was to MMCKENNA on what he signed for his ride-alongs.

 

[ecps92]

How do they deal with ride-alongs, sit-alongs, police car with the window down? It's impossible to prevent every instance of PII release. As long as a department is taking due care to prevent it they will be okay at the end of the day. You can nitpick the letter of the law for ever but when it comes down to it it's always about reasonableness.

Next point, this forum is a form of media so unless you don't like this forum you can't say you don't like "the media". Without "the media" you would likely not even know about this bill right now. Media plays an important role in our society, just because some of them do a not so good job at it doesn't mean all media is bad. You could say this same thing for just about everything in life.

Edit; There are always people who will think different than you, that's what makes this world great. For me I will be doing everything I can to get this law amended to make better sense and then passed, including putting my money where it's needed.

Ride Alongs have always required an NDA, whether agencies do it, varies.
Same with a Citizens Academy

 

[GROL]

The media should not have any rights that citizens do not. We did not elect them to special status.
Who establishes "authorized media"--good luck on that.

Yes.
Media does not have more rights than any other citizen. Every citizen is afforded the right to free press but that does not mean an organization that titles themselves as the press. Anyone can be a reporter, credentialed or not. Press credentials are issued to allow reporters extra access. Usually by law enforcement agencies, and hopefully veted before issuance.

The media has an attitude about them that they are priveledged above other citizens and smarter. Maybe not everyone one of them, but obviously the majority. We all see it every day. They have an attitude that what they are telling us is the unvarnished truth and how dare we question their integrity.

The media are not to be priveledged citizens. They don't respect their responsibility to report and not attempt to form public opinion with their opinions or slant of the facts. The public are extremely aware of the present day media's shortcomings of their responsibility to report to the rest of the citizens without corrupting facts.

Years ago when I was interviewed by the local paper when participating in a school board group meeting, I barely recognized what was written in the paper.

This is a good article for reference. There are some very important points made in this article.

Press Credentials

From this article.

It is important to note that any press credential or ID will not necessarily entitle you to greater access than the general public.

Press credentials related to news coverage are usually issued by law enforcement agencies. Requirements for the issuance of credentials are established by those agencies and vary by department. One agency may not recognize the privileges granted by the credentials from another department.

Many photographers have created their own ID’s, using Photoshop and laminating it. Stating "Press" or "Media" on the ID, along with your name, photo, and company name (if you have one) may assist you in identifying yourself but will not necessarily provide any additional privilege or access beyond what is available to the general public.

 

[GROL]

So the general public should be allowed into the White House briefing room? The general public should be allowed to fly with the Blue Angels when they come to town?

The media is given special access to lots of things beyond that of the general public, and it's for good reason.

They are not given access just because they are media. The US Air Force will grant access to anyone they want to have fly with them. No media credential required. That is a weak argument.

Media do not have access to the White House because they are media. They are granted access and many of them have had credentials revoked.

 

[GROL]

Ride Alongs have always required an NDA, whether agencies do it, varies.
Same with a Citizens Academy

Certainly understandable why a non-disclosure agreement is required.