The Official Thread: Live audio feeds, scanners, and... wait for it.. ENCRYPTION!

[BinaryMode]

All I know is that at 27 I could type a decent paragraph...

You were only 4 or so when the towers came down. Unreal, where does time go?

 

[buddrousa]

@10yrswmy396XT
If you are unhappy you are free to leave.
If you feel like you are not getting your money's worth by all means please leave.
If you do not like the way things are done here start your own site and run it as you please.

 

[trentbob]

@10yrswmy396XT... I know that in response to your post in the Ohio State forum regarding your displeasure in your town's recent move to encryption, I suggested that this forum would be a good place to discuss this. This particular thread has been going for well over a decade. As you see it's a frank, blunt discussion which I think it was meant to be as per the header

It's been awhile since I've posted here but I came over just to see if you did visit this forum.

My County went encrypted in 2021 I've been listening to my local police since 1965 on a tunable when I was 12 years old, not having that situational awareness of what's going on on my street anymore after that much time is still difficult to get used to.

You just have to suck it up, this is the wave of the future, you can't fight it, you can't go to meetings and complain and sign petitions, they don't care.

You're angry, I get that but don't take it out on radio reference, this is the place, the benefits far out way any complaints you might have.

As far as RR streaming and it's involvement here, maybe more so in the past but as has been pointed out, as encryption increases so does crime. If people don't like all the violent crime in their City then it's up to them to go to their leaders and complain or even change their leaders to reduce the crime.

One thing I am grateful for is that ICE will be 100% encrypted. I know you're pissed, but you just have to get over it.

 

[BinaryMode]

The only thing I can suggest is taking to AI like ChatGPT and have it churning out a very good and meaningful four paragraph letter addressed to state and maybe local law makers outlining the following four examples:

1) Transparency. Especially as it pertains to the 1st Amendment and the Press regardless whether they're allowed to lease a radio to monitor or not. As it stands now it's like having to lease your 1st Amendment in a way.

2) Accountability.

3) Provide a dispatch ONLY feed with up to a 30 minute delay via Internet or dedicated talkgroup.

4) Indicate many police departments, Chicago PD being one, that DO provide a dispatch only feed with a delay.


Another way you might tackle the issue is a little more involved and takes money. You would hire a company (and they do exist) that will have people go around with a clipboard obtaining signatures to allow a measure on the ballot for the openness of law enforcement radio communication with a delayed dispatch only feed for local and state law enforcement. Once the required signatures are gathered and you submit to the Secretary of State, the measure should be on next election's ballot for the PEOPLE to vote on. You'd also want an advertising campaign as well. In an era where the PD has been on the wrong side of the court of public opinion time and time again as reflected in the media, it may pass.

I'm wanting to do this very thing actually. Worth a shot, right? My city's PD went NSA TOP SECRET right before COVID and I've been monitoring for some 28 years! Even before they went digital when their primary dispatch frequency was actually a marine radio frequency. So if you had a marine radio you could hear dispatch. FCC allowed it since Colorado does not have ocean side property - yet. (but we are turning into California)... LOL

So get busy complaining or get busy actually doing something.


In lieu of the above, and if you don't want to instead monitor aviation, railroads, buses, taxis and God knows who else, I'd sell the scanners and put the money towards a Ride1Up e-bike and file in your taxes for the Fed tax incentive on the e-bike saving yourself some money. That's what I'd do. LOL After all, e-bikes are freaking awesome!

 

[spacellamaman]

The only thing I can suggest is taking to AI like ChatGPT and have it churning out a very good and meaningful four paragraph letter addressed to state and maybe local law makers outlining the following four examples:

1) Transparency. Especially as it pertains to the 1st Amendment and the Press regardless whether they're allowed to lease a radio to monitor or not. As it stands now it's like having to lease your 1st Amendment in a way.

2) Accountability.

3) Provide a dispatch ONLY feed with up to a 30 minute delay via Internet or dedicated talkgroup.

4) Indicate many police departments, Chicago PD being one, that DO provide a dispatch only feed with a delay.


Another way you might tackle the issue is a little more involved and takes money. You would hire a company (and they do exist) that will have people go around with a clipboard obtaining signatures to allow a measure on the ballot for the openness of law enforcement radio communication with a delayed dispatch only feed for local and state law enforcement. Once the required signatures are gathered and you submit to the Secretary of State, the measure should be on next election's ballot for the PEOPLE to vote on. You'd also want an advertising campaign as well. In an era where the PD has been on the wrong side of the court of public opinion time and time again as reflected in the media, it may pass.

I'm wanting to do this very thing actually. Worth a shot, right? My city's PD went NSA TOP SECRET right before COVID and I've been monitoring for some 28 years! Even before they went digital when their primary dispatch frequency was actually a marine radio frequency. So if you had a marine radio you could hear dispatch. FCC allowed it since Colorado does not have ocean side property - yet. (but we are turning into California)... LOL

So get busy complaining or get busy actually doing something.


In lieu of the above, and if you don't want to instead monitor aviation, railroads, buses, taxis and God knows who else, I'd sell the scanners and put the money towards a Ride1Up e-bike and file in your taxes for the Fed tax incentive on the e-bike saving yourself some money. That's what I'd do. LOL After all, e-bikes are freaking awesome!

theres an ebike tax incentive?

 

[BinaryMode]

theres an ebike tax incentive?

Understanding the E-Bike Tax Credit

Learn about the ebike tax credit and how it can save you money on your next ebike purchase. Discover eligibility requirements and the latest updates on federal and state incentives.

reallygoodebikes.com

In addition, your state may have a tax credit.

 

[chrismol1]

Here's a long article on Snohomish county Wash going encrypted.

A guy hosted a scanner feed and blasted live incidents on social media. That seems to have certainly got the attention of communications officials. Interesting he was subpoena for IP addresses monitoring his feed during a bank robbery. First time I've ever heard of that.

“The main reason that they chose to encrypt was for officer safety.”

For Johnson, he saw all of this coming for nearly a decade. Sometimes, his access put him at odds with law enforcement, like when Monroe police once requested IP addresses after a suspect reportedly used Johnson’s feed during a bank robbery.

But the magic has faded. Now Johnson has stepped back from posting and is ready to disassemble the home setup that kept the scanner feed alive. With police communications making up most of his site’s traffic, he said there’s not much point in keeping it running.

“I understand both sides of it,” Johnson said. “It only takes one bad act.”

He became known for breaking news of local incidents before the press, operating anonymously and partnering with journalists behind the scenes. Johnson thrived on the adrenaline and public service of letting citizens hear what was happening in their communities.

But now, he’s signing off.
“Law enforcement faces safety risks from individuals using scanners and online feeds to monitor their movements in real time,” said Courtney O’Keefe, spokesperson for the Snohomish County Sheriff’s Office, in an email. “Suspects can and have used scanner apps to track law enforcement activity while an active investigation/incident is occurring.”
Assistant Chief Colt Davis of the Mukilteo Police Department said encryption is essential for protecting both officers and the public.

During his time on patrol, he often encountered criminals using scanners to monitor police movements.

Mark Horner, a retired breaking news reporter who worked for media outlets across the country and state, sometimes relied on Johnson’s reports for tips on emerging stories. Now he wonders how encryption could affect police transparency.

Snohomish County law enforcement to encrypt police airwaves | HeraldNet.com

The plan for civilian police scanners to go dark pushed a host to shut down his popular breaking news feed.

www.heraldnet.com

I've been privileged enough to hear things on my local law enforcement that they allow to go out over the air, and unencrypted, at least for now. I can't imagine what their reaction would be if I started posting law enforcement activity live on social media as they were doing a tactical event

 

[potala1369]

Here's a long article on Snohomish county Wash going encrypted.

A guy hosted a scanner feed and blasted incidents on social media. That seems to have certainly got the attention of communications officials. Interesting he was subpoena for IP addresses monitoring his feed during a bank robbery. First time I've ever heard of that

“The main reason that they chose to encrypt was for officer safety.”

For Johnson, he saw all of this coming for nearly a decade. Sometimes, his access put him at odds with law enforcement, like when Monroe police once requested IP addresses after a suspect reportedly used Johnson’s feed during a bank robbery.

But the magic has faded. Now Johnson has stepped back from posting and is ready to disassemble the home setup that kept the scanner feed alive. With police communications making up most of his site’s traffic, he said there’s not much point in keeping it running.

“I understand both sides of it,” Johnson said. “It only takes one bad act.”

He became known for breaking news of local incidents before the press, operating anonymously and partnering with journalists behind the scenes. Johnson thrived on the adrenaline and public service of letting citizens hear what was happening in their communities.

But now, he’s signing off.
“Law enforcement faces safety risks from individuals using scanners and online feeds to monitor their movements in real time,” said Courtney O’Keefe, spokesperson for the Snohomish County Sheriff’s Office, in an email. “Suspects can and have used scanner apps to track law enforcement activity while an active investigation/incident is occurring.”
Assistant Chief Colt Davis of the Mukilteo Police Department said encryption is essential for protecting both officers and the public.

During his time on patrol, he often encountered criminals using scanners to monitor police movements.

Mark Horner, a retired breaking news reporter who worked for media outlets across the country and state, sometimes relied on Johnson’s reports for tips on emerging stories. Now he wonders how encryption could affect police transparency.

Snohomish County law enforcement to encrypt police airwaves | HeraldNet.com

The plan for civilian police scanners to go dark pushed a host to shut down his popular breaking news feed.

www.heraldnet.com

If the Federal government is one of the driving forces behind the encryption of LE radio transmissions, then why are the Feds hesitant in prosecuting the criminal element using scanners in the commission of crimes?

 

[paulears]

The key sentence says this "During his time on patrol, he often encountered criminals using scanners to monitor police movements."
Often? So he was what we in the UK would call aiding and abetting the criminals. He knew his feed was being used? Wow. Each of these events just bolsters the evidence in front of a committee, and at one point they will vote. Covert listening for your own pleasure is no0t the same as making it available to the bad guys? What a plonker!

 

[INDY72]

The problem has always been not following the basic rule of scanning. Never repeat what you heard.

 

[drdispatch]

If the Federal government is one of the driving forces behind the encryption of LE radio transmissions, then why are the Feds hesitant in prosecuting the criminal element using scanners in the commission of crimes?

The same reason you don't normally see them go after felons using firearms: They don't see anything that carries a 2-5 year sentence to be worth their time, effort, and budget, if the suspect is already facing multiple state charges that will put them in prison longer.
It's the old "bigger fish to fry" principle.

 

[kc2asb]

The problem has always been not following the basic rule of scanning. Never repeat what you heard.

Coming in very late to this thread, so cut me a little slack. I agree with this statement. Posting what you hear on social media is one thing. Now.... sorry if this is a stupid question, and no doubt it has been brought up in the previous 84 pages, but is streaming law enforcement comms to the public a form of repeating what you hear? For the record, I am an avid Broadcastify user, been listening to various feeds for years. Not opposed to streaming at all, and feel encryption was inevitable regardless of streaming.

 

[INDY72]

Coming in very late to this thread, so cut me a little slack. I agree with this statement. Posting what you hear on social media is one thing. Now.... sorry if this is a stupid question, and no doubt it has been brought up in the previous 84 pages, but is streaming law enforcement comms a form of repeating what you hear? For the record, I am an avid Broadcastify user, been listening to various feeds for years. Not opposed to streaming at all, and feel encryption was inevitable regardless of streaming.

Yes, live streaming to the whole world is exactly like telling everyone what you heard. I used to stream myself, but then realized what was going to happen. Radio systems do not go beyond a certain range. The internet has no range. Now you can hear Dana PD in Sally state, over in Podunk Russia...

 

[kc2asb]

Yes, live streaming to the whole world is exactly like telling everyone what you heard. I used to stream myself, but then realized what was going to happen. Radio systems do not go beyond a certain range. The internet has no range. Now you can hear Dana PD in Sally state, over in Podunk Russia...

Thanks for your response and patience in answering what was a Capt Obvious question. Absolutely makes sense, but I wanted to make sure I was not missing some fine point. Streaming made these communications available over any computer, phone or other device. Much, much different than an individual using a scanner in his/her home, car, etc.

 

[BinaryMode]

Here's a long article on Snohomish county Wash going encrypted.

A guy hosted a scanner feed and blasted live incidents on social media. That seems to have certainly got the attention of communications officials. Interesting he was subpoena for IP addresses monitoring his feed during a bank robbery. First time I've ever heard of that.

“The main reason that they chose to encrypt was for officer safety.”

For Johnson, he saw all of this coming for nearly a decade. Sometimes, his access put him at odds with law enforcement, like when Monroe police once requested IP addresses after a suspect reportedly used Johnson’s feed during a bank robbery.

But the magic has faded. Now Johnson has stepped back from posting and is ready to disassemble the home setup that kept the scanner feed alive. With police communications making up most of his site’s traffic, he said there’s not much point in keeping it running.

“I understand both sides of it,” Johnson said. “It only takes one bad act.”

He became known for breaking news of local incidents before the press, operating anonymously and partnering with journalists behind the scenes. Johnson thrived on the adrenaline and public service of letting citizens hear what was happening in their communities.

But now, he’s signing off.
“Law enforcement faces safety risks from individuals using scanners and online feeds to monitor their movements in real time,” said Courtney O’Keefe, spokesperson for the Snohomish County Sheriff’s Office, in an email. “Suspects can and have used scanner apps to track law enforcement activity while an active investigation/incident is occurring.”
Assistant Chief Colt Davis of the Mukilteo Police Department said encryption is essential for protecting both officers and the public.

During his time on patrol, he often encountered criminals using scanners to monitor police movements.

Mark Horner, a retired breaking news reporter who worked for media outlets across the country and state, sometimes relied on Johnson’s reports for tips on emerging stories. Now he wonders how encryption could affect police transparency.

Snohomish County law enforcement to encrypt police airwaves | HeraldNet.com

The plan for civilian police scanners to go dark pushed a host to shut down his popular breaking news feed.

www.heraldnet.com

I've been privileged enough to hear things on my local law enforcement that they allow to go out over the air, and unencrypted, at least for now. I can't imagine what their reaction would be if I started posting law enforcement activity live on social media as they were doing a tactical event

There's still no excuse to not be transparent and accountable by issuing a delayed feed for dispatch only. Whether that be over the Internet or via talkgroup. A delayed transmission has merit. Chicago does this and many other departments as well.

 

[kc2asb]

There's still no excuse to not be transparent and accountable by issuing a delayed feed for dispatch only. Whether that be over the Internet or via talkgroup. A delayed transmission has merit. Chicago does this and many other departments as well.

Agreed. A separate, delayed talkgroup would be great, since no need to rely on a feed. IMHO, no reason why dispatch can't be in the clear in real time with sensitive traffic encrypted. This would meet Federal regs as far as securing personal information (license, DOB, etc), unless I'm missing something.

 

[EAFrizzle]

Streaming made these communications available over any computer, phone or other device. Much, much different than an individual using a scanner in his/her home, car, etc.

Or is it? While it is a re-transmission of sorts, the effect is simply to make something audible farther away. Streaming is simply a high-tech method of turning up the volume so that people around you can hear it. It's nothing more than allowing someone else to hear what you just heard. Doesn't even require you to understand what's being heard, as you're not repeating what's being said, just  amplifying it.


Yes, I'm being obtuse and contrarian. But it seems as if we're about to have a "Soylent Green is people!" kind of moment in this discussion where we've just figured out what we're eating.

"Never repeat what you heard." Yes, and no. As a society, we've lost all semblance of propriety, nuance, and discretion, and replaced them with a puerile naiveté. A lot of things need to be repeated, and are rightly done so by law and necessity. Some things are sensitive in nature, and it takes wisdom, maturity, and an altruistic desire to do what's best for society rather than what's fun and makes you a big-shot.


Freedom of the press doesn't mean I can read or watch whatever I want; it means that  I can produce news from what I see and hear. If what i can see or hear is abridged by a government agency, then filtered through "official" news channels, how can I have the freedom to publish an account of events if I can't do so accurately .

 

[kc2asb]

Or is it? While it is a re-transmission of sorts, the effect is simply to make something audible farther away. Streaming is simply a high-tech method of turning up the volume so that people around you can hear it. It's nothing more than allowing someone else to hear what you just heard. Doesn't even require you to understand what's being heard, as you're not repeating what's being said, just  amplifying it.


Yes, I'm being obtuse and contrarian. But it seems as if we're about to have a "Soylent Green is people!" kind of moment in this discussion where we've just figured out what we're eating.

"Never repeat what you heard." Yes, and no. As a society, we've lost all semblance of propriety, nuance, and discretion, and replaced them with a puerile naiveté. A lot of things need to be repeated, and are rightly done so by law and necessity. Some things are sensitive in nature, and it takes wisdom, maturity, and an altruistic desire to do what's best for society rather than what's fun and makes you a big-shot.


Freedom of the press doesn't mean I can read or watch whatever I want; it means that  I can produce news from what I see and hear. If what i can see or hear is abridged by a government agency, then filtered through "official" news channels, how can I have the freedom to publish an account of events if I can't do so accurately .

Well, now you've gone and done it. LOL Thought I had settled this question in my own mind, but perhaps what you brought up is that fine point I mentioned in a previous post. Streaming, obviously, broadcasts all traffic on a system, routine or not. All things being equal, routine traffic is not worth repeating or posting about on social media, but an active shooter event obviously would be. And those are the events where lives are on the line and discretion counts, obviously.

That being said, I still see streaming as a way of "telling everyone" what you are hearing. You are making it available to anyone who can access the stream. It removes the barrier of discretion / good judgement when repeating what you hear.

 

[EAFrizzle]

"Civics" - a quaint old school subject.

New things aren't always better.

 

[trentbob]

Interesting that this thread has come alive again, very interesting, lots of ideas. Amazing that people have been shouting at the rain on this thread for 15 years, amazing.. I'm not referring to the most recent conversation here but referring to the entire thread from the beginning and to clarify the meaning of shouting at the rain



I use that term because over the years people have come up with ideas on how they can hear the police when the police don't want you to hear them. Novel ideas, petitions, delayed transmissions, Etc except that the police don't give a crap and are not going to change anything and don't care what we think.

They do whatever they want and they're not listening to us or reading this.

Been listening to my hometown police wherever that might be since about 1965 when I was 12 or so.. low band VHF on a tunable radio for the most part. As soon as I started driving I had my own dark room and was a Stringer with the Philadelphia Bulletin which had a morning and afternoon edition..

Went to college 7 years straight full-time and got another career but always worked as a Stringer for newspapers until I finally went full-time, left my other job and I'm now retired on a pension from a newspaper I worked at for a long long time.

Being able to listen to the police was key for me having a successful career, I wasn't ambulance chasing, car accidents and fires happened all day every day and for the most part isn't news unless there is extenuating circumstances. Basically the radio would lead you in a direction to conduct your own investigation..

This is before social media, cell phones or smartphones. Before freelancers who didn't know what they were doing would go trample a crime screen and waste the time of the police arguing about First Amendment rights and then publishing the story and pictures on social media without confirmation of what actually happened, just opinion, and just making it up as they go along.

Bottom line, I never met law enforcement to have any problem with me having my radios at home and in my car to assist me in doing my job. They didn't have any problem with serious hobbyist, First Responders and media types, who spent the money or their companies did to program sophisticated radio equipment not used or owned by the average person. These people did not pose a threat or danger to them and often were considered an extra pair of eyes.

Criminals are stupid, that's why they're criminals, they didn't have the sophistication or money to equip themselves with radios that could pick up the police, especially as things got more complicated.

When streaming of police dispatch on cell phones started that's when the game changed. Now anybody could just download an app. This did change the attitude of law enforcement.

To deny it or make excuses that it didn't affect encryption is foolhardy and disingenuous. The largest group of people who will tell you that is law enforcement. That chief of police didn't mind a handful of well intended people listening like shop owners or even my mother who had a crystal controlled scanner in the kitchen sitting on the local police dispatch. She enjoyed the situational awareness.

If the police had something they didn't want the public to hear they used to pull over to something that they called.. a call box and the public didn't hear what they were talking about.

I get a kick out of those who say that crime has gone up since encryption but aren't taking into account 4 years of open borders releasing to the public known violent criminals and pro crime inner cities with Catch and Release policies with no bail even on the most offensive repeat violent criminals. Might be a factor in the rampant increase in crime. Doesn't have anything to do with encryption.

I have had a number of law enforcement tell me that they went encrypted when anybody could download an app and listen to them, it wasn't that well intended hobbyist, family member of a policeman or fireman or media types.. it was anybody who could download an app.

Always appreciated having this thread where people could "Shout at the rain"

I know that's all I'm doing🤣🤣🤣. Peace✌️