Broadcastify Receives Cease and Desist from Terre Haute, IN City Attorney

[cpetraglia]

"As for the many Responsible Feed Providers (and those who disconnect, when the situation requires it) keep up the great work"

Who in there right mind believes a provider is going to sit by the scanner 24/7 and shut down the feed when necessary. They may do it once in a while which does not accomplish anything.

 

[4436time]

As I see/read it, they are giving an opportunity to work with them by shutting down the feed (a concept that I agree with others will eventually be the end of the hobby for all of us).

They don't need you to cooperate -- they CAN just encrypt - but when they do, NO one will be able to listen - not even with a scanner.

And then there will be NOTHING you can do about it.

They can and will encrypt - we're seeing it everywhere.

I completely agree with this. It seems that as long as police are using streaming as their excuse that, whether true or not, it would be in folks best interest to stop doing it.

Could it really be that simple? The feed provider seems to think so, or hopes so, otherwise he wouldn't have pulled it. Unfortunately, it's kind of late at this point now that they're down to one open TG. And we'll never know whether it was the feed or not, but it sure seems so in this case.

Is it a chance streamers are willing to take? I don't necessarily fault the site owner for providing the platform (rope). I do have issue with those who are more than willing to take it knowing they risk ruining it for everyone. Especially if it's for selfish reasons.

The ability to monitor is dwindling, and we hear police say it's due to streaming. What else do folks need to hear before they believe it, silence? Apparently so.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

We received the following cease and desist letter from Darrell E. (Eddie) Felling II, the City of Terre Haute, IN's city attorney. After a short phone conversation with him walking him through Broadcastify's broadcaster terms of service, he vehemently disagreed with our perspective and indicated further legal remedies would be forthcoming - citing a "changed climate in this country."

It is interesting to note that the City of Terre Haute actually encrypts all of their non-routine law enforcement communications. Their primary police dispatch channel is the only one not encrypted, and the only one included on any live broadcasts.

Note that we will vigorously defend any legal action taken by the city of Terre Haute IN. Any challenge by the City of Terre Haute would not survive even a lax standard of First Amendment scrutiny, as the widespread availability of these communications, often sanctioned by the public safety departments themselves, undermines any rational basis for prohibiting their broadcasts to the general public.



Attached original letter.

"Re: Cease and Desist

Dear Sir or Ma'am:

It has recently been brought to my attention that your service provides
real-time streaming of City of Terre Haute Police Department and Fire
Department radio traffic. I am requesting that the City's agencies be
removed from your broadcasting applications immediately."


Question; Is the feed "Real Time" or is it delayed? Is that the real underlying reason for the complaint? Could it be construed that a counter argument is that it is not real time or that it will be delayed in the future?

 

[redneckcellphone]

Delayed? The terms of service do not allow for delaying any feeds. but yes these feeds do have a slight delay on its own.

 

[jasonpeoria911]

yah he could of been open to delaying the feed by 5 or 10 minutes. Peoria County hosts their own feeds and it's delayed about 5 minutes. People will show up to scenes regardless if the feed us up or not.

Jason

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

yah he could of been open to delaying the feed by 5 or 10 minutes. Peoria County hosts their own feeds and it's delayed about 5 minutes. People will show up to scenes regardless if the feed us up or not.

Jason

actually by the time my wife calls me to say there is police activity down the block 5 minutes have passed and a delay in dispatch would help me find out what happened.

 

[rbrtklamp2]

How about some common decency

How about you just do the decent thing and comply with towns wishes. Broadcastify is quickly killing our hobby and now that there is a cease desist request you want to fight it? That makes no sense, if the owner and users of broadcastify wish there to be anything left to stream over the course of the next ten years or so do the decent thing and take down the stream it's that simple. If you had respect for our first responders you would respect their wishes its as simple as that. And why do we need streams in the first place if I want to know what's going on I turn on my radio and listen. Why do people in New York need to to hear Los Angeles. I'm in the Chicago suburbs and only need to hear what's going on around me if I wanted to hear someplace else I would travel to that location. And the example of the Iowa dispatch center asking for the scanner listeners help isn't valid how could anyone outside of the immediate area ever call in with honest info come on. No way anyone fifty to a hundred miles away is going to be of use to the dispatcher asking for help let alone people on the other side country listening just for fun. Let's all remember that with this great hobby comes common sense rules so if we all use common sense instead of petty complaining to combat encryption we might actually see a change but if we continue down the road we are on encryption will become the normal and that would be a great disservice to our hobby. Use common sense either put a half hour or so delay on these feeds to give police and fire time to do what they need to, to secure a scene or take down the streams all together I have never seen the point in streams somebody out there has to agree with me. My state is encrypting alot of communications that used to be in the clear and every time I enquire why with a ranking police or fire officer they say it's because of the online streaming. Save our hobby and stop streaming!

 

[Hans13]

I and many others I know enjoy listening to far away scanners. We applaud your efforts! Many don't even know about the forum or this issue. I'm going to let them know.

 

[TrooperBruceMichaels]

Probably get me banned, but more power to them! I personally am tired of having civilians showing up or doing "drive bys" just to see what is going on. All it take is for one 415 (person w/ gun) to shoot one of those "listeners who just happened to drive by" and it leads back to here.

TBM

 

[MaximusTheGreat]

How about you just do the decent thing and comply with towns wishes. Broadcastify is quickly killing our hobby and now that there is a cease desist request you want to fight it? That makes no sense, if the owner and users of broadcastify wish there to be anything left to stream over the course of the next ten years or so do the decent thing and take down the stream it's that simple. If you had respect for our first responders you would respect their wishes its as simple as that. And why do we need streams in the first place if I want to know what's going on I turn on my radio and listen. Why do people in New York need to to hear Los Angeles. I'm in the Chicago suburbs and only need to hear what's going on around me if I wanted to hear someplace else I would travel to that location. And the example of the Iowa dispatch center asking for the scanner listeners help isn't valid how could anyone outside of the immediate area ever call in with honest info come on. No way anyone fifty to a hundred miles away is going to be of use to the dispatcher asking for help let alone people on the other side country listening just for fun. Let's all remember that with this great hobby comes common sense rules so if we all use common sense instead of petty complaining to combat encryption we might actually see a change but if we continue down the road we are on encryption will become the normal and that would be a great disservice to our hobby. Use common sense either put a half hour or so delay on these feeds to give police and fire time to do what they need to, to secure a scene or take down the streams all together I have never seen the point in streams somebody out there has to agree with me. My state is encrypting alot of communications that used to be in the clear and every time I enquire why with a ranking police or fire officer they say it's because of the online streaming. Save our hobby and stop streaming!

Another great post that needs to get THUMBS UP from me!!

 

[JD21960]

Broadcastify

@rbrtklamp2 I didn't read all of your post, but did see one question I can answer. You asked why do we need to monitor Police or Fire far away? Because some of us like to keep tabs on our old hometowns and have relatives. Case in point. In 2010 *an active year for Tornadoes here in ILLINOIS *even late into Thanksgiving in November 2010, we had two Tornadoes miss relatives homes by mere blocks and in the case of my sister in Rockford/Caledonia IL... by less a few hundred yards. I listened to the Streator IL/LaSalle county IL storm because most my relatives still live there. It was a helluva storm and the video is on youtube. I was concerned as hell as WGN TV 9 cut in on the White Sox game to show it. I called my Aunt 3 times and there was not even a dial tone. Turns out it missed her house by 3 blocks. Did major damage to the area. I was able to hear a feed on the old Radioman 911 Justin TV site for that area to hear how things were going. Then 11/22/2010 a rare November Tornado hit Loves Park/Rockford and Caledonia IL. It went right over my Dad in Assisted living while still in the air and then headed for my Sister's place. I heard the town on my scanner here on the State Police D15 system. I was able to listen in on that one too. They lucked out big time. Only minor damage to the shingles. I also enjoy watching storms on radar, just a thing I do. I often listen in to the areas affected to hear the police/fire calls and HAM Skywarn calls. That's why I listen in to the feeds. I think it's unfair to blame others for complaints about encryption. As usual.. PEOPLE abuse things. It's not folks who are scanner fans like I have been since 1974. It's today's radial protesters being paid by George Soros, it's black lives splatter types using Scanner apps to coordinate attacks on the Poe-leece and it's Occupy type morons doing the same things. AND of course you have your everyday thugs and crooks abusing them. I for one enjoy the feeds and if they all get shut down? there's still Skywarn and Ham stuff to be broadcast hopefully. Whatever the person in Indiana decides to do is fine. It's his deal. I'll blame those who abuse such feeds, not the scanner community. We know who we are.

 

[JD21960]

@TrooperMichaels - Ha. 11 DEAD 64 WOUNDED in owebama's Chi-raq over Thanksgiving weekend
that happened without any scanners or feeds involved. I'm sure those futuristic blue light cams$ way up on the telephone poles got a good view of those who just happened by

 

[Hans13]

I'll blame those who abuse such feeds, not the scanner community. We know who we are.

Exactly! I use them for things happening where relatves and friends are; bad weather, protests/riots, fires, etc. Sometimes, I will listen to a remote feed in order to get a leg up on breaking news and sometimes write an article or collaborate with another on their mainstream articles.

I never show up at an incident scene that I've heard of on the scanner. I've never used any type of scanner when involved with a protest or demonstration (no, I am not BLM, et al... mine have to do with liberty protests). In fact, I've only used a radio once at a protest and that was because they were using MURS to set up signs at the beginning.

I pretty much use scanners and scanner feeds for the same, plain-jane reasons as most everybody else does. I'm thankful for the online feeds because they have given me peace of mind, supplemental information for news, and hours of personal enjoyment.

 

[troymail]

None of this really matters - if factors (including streaming) continue to push the issue, they'll just encrypt and then there will be nothing you can do about it. Many will encrypt even if there isn't streaming - but the ease at which anyone with a device they already carry with them at all times can listen in given streaming will simply serve to expedite the roll out of encryption. Then all you'll be listening to are taxi cabs, towing, and concrete trucks. Then again, there are already business users in my area that are utilizing encryption and scrambling - I assume to preserve their information and livelihood from their competitors.

Do I agree with encrypting everything? Absolutely not. But wide availability of the technology and other external factors become the reason for doing so.

Use of encryption becomes a question that is similar using the technology that allows for streaming - just because you can doesn't mean you should. So it goes both ways...

 

[cpetraglia]

How about you just do the decent thing and comply with towns wishes. Broadcastify is quickly killing our hobby and now that there is a cease desist request you want to fight it? That makes no sense, if the owner and users of broadcastify wish there to be anything left to stream over the course of the next ten years or so do the decent thing and take down the stream it's that simple. If you had respect for our first responders you would respect their wishes its as simple as that. And why do we need streams in the first place if I want to know what's going on I turn on my radio and listen. Why do people in New York need to to hear Los Angeles. I'm in the Chicago suburbs and only need to hear what's going on around me if I wanted to hear someplace else I would travel to that location. And the example of the Iowa dispatch center asking for the scanner listeners help isn't valid how could anyone outside of the immediate area ever call in with honest info come on. No way anyone fifty to a hundred miles away is going to be of use to the dispatcher asking for help let alone people on the other side country listening just for fun. Let's all remember that with this great hobby comes common sense rules so if we all use common sense instead of petty complaining to combat encryption we might actually see a change but if we continue down the road we are on encryption will become the normal and that would be a great disservice to our hobby. Use common sense either put a half hour or so delay on these feeds to give police and fire time to do what they need to, to secure a scene or take down the streams all together I have never seen the point in streams somebody out there has to agree with me. My state is encrypting alot of communications that used to be in the clear and every time I enquire why with a ranking police or fire officer they say it's because of the online streaming. Save our hobby and stop streaming!

I have been saying this for years. Common sense says streaming is the # one issue with PD wanting to secure comms. What the heck is everyone waiting for?

 

[cpetraglia]

Exactly! I use them for things happening where relatves and friends are; bad weather, protests/riots, fires, etc. Sometimes, I will listen to a remote feed in order to get a leg up on breaking news and sometimes write an article or collaborate with another on their mainstream articles.

I never show up at an incident scene that I've heard of on the scanner. I've never used any type of scanner when involved with a protest or demonstration (no, I am not BLM, et al... mine have to do with liberty protests). In fact, I've only used a radio once at a protest and that was because they were using MURS to set up signs at the beginning.

I pretty much use scanners and scanner feeds for the same, plain-jane reasons as most everybody else does. I'm thankful for the online feeds because they have given me peace of mind, supplemental information for news, and hours of personal enjoyment.

Keep up the streaming and your personal enjoyment and peace of mind will be gone.
I'll say no more. We're beating a dead horse. !!

 

[Jimru]

Allend, if encryption ever becomes the norm, it will create an atmosphere in which people can bring grievance. As it stands right now there is less encrypted relative to all government traffic so the argument for transparency might be weaker. If most of government traffic is encrypted, I think it would ripen a case against government encryption. It's darkest before the dawn. My theory is let it get dark faster and dawn will soon follow.

Now, this is an interesting take on the issue!

 

[Jimru]

Those aren't fair questions because the obvious answer to both is that they are not. The City may believe that the Electronics Communications Privacy Act of 1934 as amended 1981 gives them the authority to send a cease and desist. Title 47 says otherwise. This isn't a political or constitutional issue. Respectfully, I think you know that.

The ECPA (Electronic Communications Privacy Act) was enacted in 1986.

The Communications Act was enacted by Congress in 1934.

Just saying...

 

[Jimru]

The thing that has me confused is Terre Haute already encrypts all their sensitive talkgroups for law enforcement. They *only* leave their regular single dispatch channel open.

So they are already doing everything right when it comes to protecting their officers and their sensitive communications.

It's as if they've setup their communications plan to keep routine generation operations open and transparent to the public, but then they want to control/restrict access to that through legal means.

The more I think about it the more it makes my head hurt.

Lindsay, I believe the authorities are concerned about citizens groups that arrive on scene to monitor the police activity, not as hobbyists, but as a method of making sure fellow citizens are not abused by police officers. These groups usually video record the incidents when they arrive.

This action is seen by LE as interference with their activities. I don't know the legalities involved when this happens.

To me it has less to do with "officer safety" than it has to do with LE wanting to keep citizens in the dark about their own actions.

 

[krazybob]

The ECPA (Electronic Communications Privacy Act) was enacted in 1986.

The Communications Act was enacted by Congress in 1934.

Just saying...

Probably one of those corrections that was unnecessary to point out since most people got the point. There will always be somebody that knows more than I do. Just sayin... regardless of the title name streaming was not addressed in either 1934 or 1986.

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