KG7PBS
Member
Yes Blue Line and Gold Line and NFORCE
Sacramento P25 system
- Thread starter mkewman
- Start date
-
- Tags
- sacramento sticky
Regional Transit (RT) has had some of their light rail vehicles (LRVs) on the P25 system since May/June/July of 2019. Most of their LRVs are still on the analog system. There have been no new LRVs on P25 since the summer, for the most part.
Around August 2019, RT started moving some of their Community Bus Service (CBS) vehicles on the P25 system.
This month (January), RT started moving over their fixed-route buses to the P25 system.
RT also started this month moving over their Inspectors and Guards portable radios over to the P25 system (NFORCE channel).
---
Separately, it appears UC Davis has moved some more non-public safety medical center users over to the P25 system (Plant Operations & Maintenance). I will submit to the database.
They also appear to be prepping the TAPS, Unitrans and Yolobus radios based on watching Unitrunker.
Around August 2019, RT started moving some of their Community Bus Service (CBS) vehicles on the P25 system.
This month (January), RT started moving over their fixed-route buses to the P25 system.
RT also started this month moving over their Inspectors and Guards portable radios over to the P25 system (NFORCE channel).
---
Separately, it appears UC Davis has moved some more non-public safety medical center users over to the P25 system (Plant Operations & Maintenance). I will submit to the database.
They also appear to be prepping the TAPS, Unitrans and Yolobus radios based on watching Unitrunker.
CityNewsSupport
City News Support
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2018
- Messages
- 70
Question will the Smart Zone System For West Sacramento Police & Fire Be going away after the P25 change over? If so when?
Thanks
Thanks
In the Feb. 11 Sacramento County Board of Supervisors meeting agenda, there's an item discussing upgrading the Sacramento County Regional Park Rangers radios to support encryption, because the Sacramento County Sheriff's Office (which the Rangers use for dispatching) is going exclusively encrypted on their Records (SD 5) and tactical channels.
As of now, the following talkgroups exist for the specific Sheriff encrypted communications mentioned in the agenda item.
| 867 | E SD 5 | Records (Encrypted) (Ch. 5) |
| 885 | E SD 14 | Tactical 4 (Encrypted) (Ch. 14) |
| 887 | E SD 15 | Tactical 5 (Encrypted) (Ch. 15) - NOT CURRENTLY USED |
| 889 | E SD 16 | Tactical 6 (Encrypted) (Ch. 16) |
Yes, the SmartZone system will go away once everyone is on P25, probably sometime later this year. I believe West Sacramento Fire has already switched over, and PD is probably in the process. mcjones2013 can probably speak to that better than I can.
Correct, the West Sacramento Fire Department has switched over to the P25 system as of June/July 2019.
American Medical Response (AMR), the 9-1-1 ambulance provider for West Sacramento (and all of Yolo County) has yet to transition to P25.
West Sacramento Police Department has no signs of transition to P25, yet. I don't know why the wait or when the transition will happen.
CityNewsSupport
City News Support
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2018
- Messages
- 70
Question I know I Ask A Lot
D I Upgrade To Uniden BCD 536 HP Or BCD996P2 Will Be Used For Now In The Sacramento Area! I Currently Use Freescan For Programing.
Thanks
D I Upgrade To Uniden BCD 536 HP Or BCD996P2 Will Be Used For Now In The Sacramento Area! I Currently Use Freescan For Programing.Thanks
852.4625 is now active on Site 12 as a voice channel. It was moved over from Site 1 on the SmartZone system around 10 AM today. I will submit to RRDB.
KG7PBS
Member
cool. Now how about telling us if you have any more information on UCD PD on the P25 side? I know if anyone is going to know it’s you.
russbrill
Member
The SSD is going to use Encryption on the "Records" channel ???????????? I guess we need to protect all of those convicted Felons right to privacy... Sheeeesh, what a joke and a waste of tax payer dollars...
sacscan
Member
Not everyone who gets pulled over is a criminal. Years ago I was riding in kgowen4444's Dodge Diplomat. I heard SSD run his plate on my scanner. It came back to a wanted felon, but of course he wasn't. Both of us are law-abiding citizens.
They ran the plate a second time and it came back clear, but they pulled us over and took us out at gunpoint anyway. Of course they ran us on SD 5. I have heard private information such as Social Security numbers, addresses, and credit card numbers run over unsecured radio channels, so I'm fully in favor of SD 5 being encrypted. I don't want to see regular dispatch channels encrypted though.
KG7PBS
Member
I have Never Heard credit card numbers run over SSD CH 5
sacscan
Member
I've heard credit card numbers run on regular dispatch channels, but that was years ago. Anyway, I don't want to derail this thread any more so let's get back to updates about SRRCS P25.
CityNewsSupport
City News Support
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2018
- Messages
- 70
Why would a credit card number be run?
sacscan
Member
To check if the card is stolen. I heard those numbers run on Sac PD years ago. Now can we please get back on topic so we don't all get in trouble with the mods? This is really the only thread I follow religiously, so I don't want to be responsible for ruining it for everyone with off-topic posts.
CityNewsSupport
City News Support
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2018
- Messages
- 70
Somthing I Noticed! So I Am not a radio guy I am Freelance, but am following the P25 switch over as it requires new scanners What I have noticed On West Sac PD/FD Is Channel 853.9000 Now Reads P853.9000 Whats The P Signify Still picking up WSPD WSFD Strong On My Uniden BCT15X
What I have noticed On West Sac PD/FD Is Channel 853.9000 Now Reads P853.9000 Whats The P Signify Still picking up WSPD WSFD Strong On My Uniden BCT15XI don't know that particular radio, BUT my guess is that you are listening to the original Motorola SmartZone system and that is the control channel. As you mentioned, you aren't a radio guy, but in a trunked system, there is a control channel, that assigns conversations to different frequencies. As I'm sure you've learned, Sacramento Regional Radio Communication System is transitioning from an analog Motorola SmartZone system to a P25 digital system.
Both work very similarly, wherein when a radio on "Talkgroup A" pushes the Push-To-Talk (PTT) button, a signal is sent on one frequency with the radio ID wishing to speak and the target/talkgroup ID they wish to talk to. The computer verifies the radio ID and talkgroup ID are valid, it quickly chooses a channel (which is associated with a frequency pair) and tells all the radios listening to that talkgroup to change to that channel. In the old system, this was in analog Frequency Modulation. In P25, it uses a different type of digital transmission, using Frequency Division Multiple Access (FDMA) for Phase I or Time Division Multiple Access (TDMA) for Phase II. The SRRCS system is Phase I. While FDMA and TDMA are methods of digital streaming of data, they use a digital voice compression technique to transmit audio. This eliminates static you may have become accustomed to in analog radio but if you don't get the complete digital data stream, it can cause the audio to become sketchy at times. As it is digital, adding an encryption code to the digital stream does not change the audio quality. Back in times past, they used voice-inversion techniques to "encrypt" audio, but this was annoying to those that didn't flip to the encrypted mode and it distorted the audio some. Thankfully, the use of encryption is limited, but still present, in the SRRCS system; some systems encrypt ALL law enforcement traffic on their P25 systems. By encrypting all law-enforcement traffic, only a radio programmed by someone authorized to program radios for the system can listen to the traffic. I have not seen any scanners that have the ability to add a decryption key.
As the SRRCS system is going through a transition, not all agencies have switched from one system to the other; they go in waves. There are fewer and fewer users of the old system, but it is still live. Many talkgroups are linked between the old system and the new system. The frequency earlier mentioned, 853.900 Mhz, still belongs to the old Sacramento City system, I believe. As fewer users are on this system, many of the frequency pairs of the old system are being migrated to the new system, allowing more simultaneous conversations to take place on the new system.
Instead of using a "traditional" radio scanner, I use a piece of software called SDRTrunk and cheap little SDR tuners. Below, I have shown a screenshot of what I can see (and hear). I use an Airspy Mini SDR tuner (~$100), where I can see 6 MHz of spectrum simultaneously. The primary SRRCS site only takes up 2.825 MHz, so this easily works; cheaper RTL-SDR tuners, costing around $20, only have 2.4Mhz of bandwidth. In my screenshot, the green peaks in the top portion ar current active transmissions. The blue section is a "waterfall" view of transmissions over a couple of seconds of time. In the status window, you can see that in addition to the control channel, there are seven other conversations taking place. Below the status window, there is just a constant stream of details. I can listen, locally, to two conversations at a time; one on the right channel and one on the left. I can also set certain talkgroups to record or stream to an online site. If you see online versions of either the City of Roseville or the Placer County Sheriff's audio streams from Broadcastify (or sources that use Broadcastify), those are from my system at home, in Roseville. The screenshot below is from my laptop while I'm at work in West Sacramento. I COULD set it up to record every single conversation that exists, but I don't see any good reason to do so.
Both work very similarly, wherein when a radio on "Talkgroup A" pushes the Push-To-Talk (PTT) button, a signal is sent on one frequency with the radio ID wishing to speak and the target/talkgroup ID they wish to talk to. The computer verifies the radio ID and talkgroup ID are valid, it quickly chooses a channel (which is associated with a frequency pair) and tells all the radios listening to that talkgroup to change to that channel. In the old system, this was in analog Frequency Modulation. In P25, it uses a different type of digital transmission, using Frequency Division Multiple Access (FDMA) for Phase I or Time Division Multiple Access (TDMA) for Phase II. The SRRCS system is Phase I. While FDMA and TDMA are methods of digital streaming of data, they use a digital voice compression technique to transmit audio. This eliminates static you may have become accustomed to in analog radio but if you don't get the complete digital data stream, it can cause the audio to become sketchy at times. As it is digital, adding an encryption code to the digital stream does not change the audio quality. Back in times past, they used voice-inversion techniques to "encrypt" audio, but this was annoying to those that didn't flip to the encrypted mode and it distorted the audio some. Thankfully, the use of encryption is limited, but still present, in the SRRCS system; some systems encrypt ALL law enforcement traffic on their P25 systems. By encrypting all law-enforcement traffic, only a radio programmed by someone authorized to program radios for the system can listen to the traffic. I have not seen any scanners that have the ability to add a decryption key.
As the SRRCS system is going through a transition, not all agencies have switched from one system to the other; they go in waves. There are fewer and fewer users of the old system, but it is still live. Many talkgroups are linked between the old system and the new system. The frequency earlier mentioned, 853.900 Mhz, still belongs to the old Sacramento City system, I believe. As fewer users are on this system, many of the frequency pairs of the old system are being migrated to the new system, allowing more simultaneous conversations to take place on the new system.
Instead of using a "traditional" radio scanner, I use a piece of software called SDRTrunk and cheap little SDR tuners. Below, I have shown a screenshot of what I can see (and hear). I use an Airspy Mini SDR tuner (~$100), where I can see 6 MHz of spectrum simultaneously. The primary SRRCS site only takes up 2.825 MHz, so this easily works; cheaper RTL-SDR tuners, costing around $20, only have 2.4Mhz of bandwidth. In my screenshot, the green peaks in the top portion ar current active transmissions. The blue section is a "waterfall" view of transmissions over a couple of seconds of time. In the status window, you can see that in addition to the control channel, there are seven other conversations taking place. Below the status window, there is just a constant stream of details. I can listen, locally, to two conversations at a time; one on the right channel and one on the left. I can also set certain talkgroups to record or stream to an online site. If you see online versions of either the City of Roseville or the Placer County Sheriff's audio streams from Broadcastify (or sources that use Broadcastify), those are from my system at home, in Roseville. The screenshot below is from my laptop while I'm at work in West Sacramento. I COULD set it up to record every single conversation that exists, but I don't see any good reason to do so.
Markinsac
Member
I ran an HP-2 on the old SRRCS city system (site 1) yesterday. Found 3 frequencies that popped up that aren't in the database. They show up on the FCC database on the Sacramento city license WNXW543.
Is it worth submitting an update if that system will be reduced in the near future?
Frequencies noted with activity: 852.6375, 852.9625, 853.1000
Is it worth submitting an update if that system will be reduced in the near future?
Frequencies noted with activity: 852.6375, 852.9625, 853.1000
Yes, it's been like that for a while. For whatever reason, they were removed from the database at one point.
Below is what is currently identified as in use on all active sites. Bold means control channel. Red italicized means the frequency is also licensed for conventional operations, so I don't believe these will be converted over to the P25 trunked system.
Yes, 853.8750 is programmed as a control channel for both Site 2 and Site 12. I never see it used as a control or voice channel for Site 2 however, only for Site 12.
Below is what is currently identified as in use on all active sites. Bold means control channel. Red italicized means the frequency is also licensed for conventional operations, so I don't believe these will be converted over to the P25 trunked system.
Yes, 853.8750 is programmed as a control channel for both Site 2 and Site 12. I never see it used as a control or voice channel for Site 2 however, only for Site 12.
Last edited:
Similar threads
- Locked
