Ventura County moving to 7/800 Phase I P25 trunking system by 2020

[Engine104]

KJ6PSG, Thanks so much. Great info.

I'm sorry to hear that a "regular" P2 scanner probably won't work well with the new system. On the plus side, it sounds like the new system won't be ready for prime time until 2021 or 2022, so maybe by then more SDS scanners will be available on the used market and maybe Whistler will come up with something that will work better with simulcasts.

 

[kj6psg]

it sounds like the new system won't be ready for prime time until 2021 or 2022

It'll be longer than 2022. After the Phase 2 scheduling change, it'll start changing over in 2023 or 2024. Poor planning seems to be a theme with this system.

 

[Engine104]

Just wondering if you've heard if LA-RICS is also delayed? Will that be a P2 simulcast system as well?

 

[kj6psg]

I haven't heard much on LA-RICS, and I won't follow it too closely until Oat Mtn 700 MHz is up and I get another receiver. So far it's a mix of simulcast and single-transmitter sites. It's already using Phase 2.

 

[Engine104]

Thanks. So, probably the best bet, when the time comes, is to get a P25, Phase 2, scanner capable of handling simulcasts well. Of course, I hope that most of the comms are not encrypted..

I'm guessing between the two systems (Ventura and LA-RICS), I've got maybe two years to save up.

 

[ChrisE_STB]

It'll be longer than 2022. After the Phase 2 scheduling change, it'll start changing over in 2023 or 2024. Poor planning seems to be a theme with this system.

Also, Public works and non Safety is slated to start using the system, with Public Safety users to follow.

 

[uman18]

Also, Public works and non Safety is slated to start using the system, with Public Safety users to follow.

The County is building it out with the hopes that local agencies will get on it. From what i heard, the county wants $50 a month per subscriber radio. Not to mention the cost the agencies will need to make for portable and mobile radios. I think it will be sometime before other agencies join. It will be mostly county departments.

 

[kj6psg]

So far I haven't heard any change in behavior (intermittent 8AM roll call on TG 99, PSAPs responding in Phase 1). Tonight I've been noticing that one of the CQPSK transmitters, assuming Hall due to signal strength, drops out intermittently and cycles at about 13/second during those dropouts. South's C4FM and the other CQPSK transmitter (much weaker than the other two transmitters in the simulcast) stays on. I think I've seen this in the past, but those were brief (~2 cycles) and far between. There's still brief 2-cycle dropouts happening right now, about once every minute or three. I've attached audio of the more severe dropout, demodulated in FM and AM respectively. It should be plainly audible in FM demodulation in areas where Hall is the strongest site.

So far, this has been a pretty sad system buildout.

 

[f40ph]

The County is building it out with the hopes that local agencies will get on it. From what i heard, the county wants $50 a month per subscriber radio. Not to mention the cost the agencies will need to make for portable and mobile radios.

That's a little less than what San Bernardino County charges its subscribers so I'd tend to agree with your per month figure.

 

[KK6ZTE]

The County is building it out with the hopes that local agencies will get on it. From what i heard, the county wants $50 a month per subscriber radio. Not to mention the cost the agencies will need to make for portable and mobile radios. I think it will be sometime before other agencies join. It will be mostly county departments.

That's what City of Santa Maria did with their Central-RICS system. Motorola spun a great story, how everyone in the within fifty miles would be chomping at the bit to hop on board...

Last I heard they were trying to get businesses on board...

 

[kj6psg]

VCFD doing some testing today on east site (2), TG 103 Chief-to-Chief, from various locations in Simi. Unit 20011 is Fire Communications Center. Battalions 17 and 29 heard (probably among others). Operations were in Phase 1, probably because of FCC's console being on the talkgroup. Guessing they're checking coverage before fire season? Notably, they had spot coverage on 118 at De Soto, which should be rather shielded due to Chatsworth Peak being in the way.

I heard them while I was out traveling and was in an area where there's not so much co-channel interference on site 3, audio for most users has been clear and crisp. Strong signal on the portable from inside my car at Ventura near Hwy 101/Telephone Rd. As of this posting, sounds like they're wrapping up tests but are still active. I caught it a bit late and the SDR fought back a little bit as I tried to set it up quickly. I saw RIDs 10020, 10077, 10105, and 20011.

 

[iscanvnc2]

As of 4:50 still testing. I'm receiving on control 770.79375 which per RRDB is Hall Cnyn which makes sense here.

 

[kj6psg]

As of 4:50 still testing. I'm receiving on control 770.79375 which per RRDB is Hall Cnyn which makes sense here.

It's a three-site "simulcast" of Hall, Laguna (CQPSK) and South (C4FM). Listen in analog to figure out whether Hall or South is dominant in your area; it's probably Hall.

 

[kearthfan101]

It's a three-site "simulcast" of Hall, Laguna (CQPSK) and South (C4FM). Listen in analog to figure out whether Hall or South is dominant in your area; it's probably Hall.

Is this all still confirmed? Database hasn't been updated since February and still shows Site 1 existing, and Site 3 is named hall and not Simulcast. I'd try to help more but I'm in the east SFV and only get Site 2. I'm guessing TG's 99, 1, 101, 201, 102, 103, etc can probably be submitted too as PSAP, fire, etc.

 

[kj6psg]

Is this all still confirmed? Database hasn't been updated since February and still shows Site 1 existing, and Site 3 is named hall and not Simulcast. I'd try to help more but I'm in the east SFV and only get Site 2. I'm guessing TG's 99, 1, 101, 201, 102, 103, etc can probably be submitted too as PSAP, fire, etc.

Talkgroups 99 (PSAP), 101 (Countywide Command), 102 (VCFD Command 1), 103 (VCFD Chief-to-Chief) are all confirmed usage. The only other one I confirmed was the SVPD demonstration talkgroup, I don't remember the talkgroup number off the top of my head but it was in the 200s and mentioned in this thread. The unconfirmed talkgroups were named based on their users. I don't know if I submitted to the database, but if I did, something must had been lost in translation.

The three-site simulcast is confirmed from on-air discussion matching what's on the license, down to the site names. On yesterday's road trip, I confirmed it's Hall that's suffering from dropouts. During dropouts, the transmitter turns off completely; I still hear a CQPSK site during dropouts, so there's a third on-air site in the simulcast. I could drive closer to the other two sites to verify should I have time.

Eventually, all three sites will be simulcast, should the system meet buildout dates. Site 1, not yet on-air, covers northwest county, Ojai, and the coastline west of Ventura. Site 2 covers east county. Site 3 covers most of the cities (Ventura, Oxnard, Camarillo, Port Hueneme, Santa Paula, Fillmore).

 

[Engine104]

So, I guess the SDS 200 or SDS 100 would be the way to go since the system will be simulcasted? I've heard the other Uniden models don't handle simulcasting well. I was considering a 996P2 when I upgrade.

Does anyone know if LA-RICS will also be simulcast?

 

[kj6psg]

So, I guess the SDS 200 or SDS 100 would be the way to go since the system will be simulcasted? I've heard the other Uniden models don't handle simulcasting well. I was considering a 996P2 when I upgrade.

In this day and age, going with an I/Q scanner is the only way to go. It's getting easier for departments to set up simulcasts and spectrum isn't a plentiful resource here. Using a conventional FM detector on QPSK signals is a flawed approach that actual subscriber units don't do (take apart an XTS5000 and you'll see the second IF goes to an AD9874 digitizer instead of a discriminator). FM detection works if one site is significantly stronger than the sum of all the others, which will probably be the case over much of Ventura, but even then it's suboptimal. The technical nitty-gritty is out of the scope of this topic, but if the system is built out completely (to what the license says), all three sites are going to be simulcast. Because of the topography and site distribution, there won't be very much simulcast distortion in Camarillo, Ventura, or Ojai; while Santa Paula and Fillmore can get pretty significant distortion (large timing difference between Hall and South, direct line of sight to both). I haven't looked at the other sites enough to guess at coverage overlap, but the east site should have quite a bit of overlap.

I'm making some detailed coverage maps based off of the data on the license and the performance data of the radios involved. Detailed maps take a long time to run in Radio Mobile, so I'll probably have them later this weekend. I attached one for the operational Simi site, that one finished quick because it's lower resolution and only one site.

Does anyone know if LA-RICS will also be simulcast?

That's a question better suited for the LA-RICS thread. There's already simulcasts up, but they also have single-station sites.

 

[Engine104]

Thanks, kj6psg. Thanks for the coverage map too. My QTH is in Winnetka, so I'm hoping I can get coverage reception from the Rocketdyne site. Maybe less simulcast issues too due to topography?

 

[Progline]

Talkgroup 103 was identified as "FIRE CHIEF NET" in Phase 1 last night. It was the only traffic I heard all day in listening to the system from the East site.

 

[kj6psg]

Went south of the Camarillo Hills today, to an area I'd expect to be well shielded from both South and Hall. Turns out, against my expectations from propagation simulation, Laguna is the C4FM site.