Ventura County moving to 7/800 Phase I P25 trunking system by 2020

[allend]

Its time to get off your encryption high horse. LAPD isnt encrypted, bulk of ICI law dispatch isnt encrypted. Those have all been implemented after OC.

Its not about getting off my high horse. It's about the facts and the trends. Look who just joined ICI which is Torrance and they are gone now. So the whole South Bay will be gone too. Its just a matter of time until the rest go bye bye too. Look at Whittier when they join. They will be gone too.

Listen I am completely not happy about it but the facts are the facts and its not going to stop until all of the open gaps are closed.

 

[kj6psg]

Site 3 is simulcasting C4FM on 770.79375. Signal is very strong (-73dBm on the base), but there's so much simulcast distortion here in Ventura that DSDPlus is struggling to monitor the system. Upon actually looking at the spectrum, there's two transmitters on the 770.79375 channel; one is C4FM and the other is CQPSK. Why??????
769.83125 is off the air and site 1 is no longer in any neighbor list. Site 2 on 773.95625 (appears to still be non-simulcast) does not indicate it has any neighbors. Site 3 indicates site 2 773.95625 as its only neighbor.
770.79375 control channel
770.34375 secondary control
770.78125 secondary control
770.08125 BSI

IF I/Q of new control channel for HDSDR or other SDR applications: https://www.dropbox.com/s/u63x0kixvqs5mpo/HDSDR_20190419_211422Z_770794kHz_IF.wav?dl=1

 

[kj6psg]

I haven't had the SDR capacity to really keep up with system activity, so I've probably missed some important changes in activity. Roll call is happening infrequently now, and I've only heard it in the morning. On 770.79375, South Mountain is still transmitting in C4FM, Hall is transmitting in CQPSK, I don't know about Laguna . All sites in that "simulcast" are using RFSS 1, Site 3. No changes on East County (site 2). Despite interference from South Mountain, decode quality on Site 3 has improved significantly since it went on the air in April. I've just acquired some hardware dedicated for monitoring the TRS now, so I'll be able to report on updates more frequently and more accurately.

This morning, IDs 40004 and 40006 were seen affiliating to talkgroup 1, and 40007 was seen affiliating on talkgroup 201. I recall seeing 40007 affiliating to talkgroup 101 in the past, but I cannot locate logs.

Oxnard PD participates in roll call with ID 20000. Radio techs (they self-identify as such) did a quick test on talkgroup 99 about two days ago, with ID 20001.

 

[gman65]

This system hasn't been updated in the database since November 2018. I see that some have submitted information but no changes are reflected. Is there a reason for this? It appears that there are updated frequencies, a new site 3 and some talk groups that can be added. Can an admin review and update the database please?

Thanks

 

[kj6psg]

Here's some interesting activity from roughly 2 hours ago (timestamps are UTC):

2019/07/02  17:00:46  Freq=773.956250  NAC=962  Registration; RID=10017   TG=101    ACCEPT
2019/07/02  17:03:54  Freq=773.956250  NAC=962  Registration; RID=10017   TG=101    ACCEPT
2019/07/02  17:06:33  Freq=773.956250  NAC=962  Group call; TG=101  RID=10017  Ch=769.78125
2019/07/02  17:10:07  Freq=773.956250  NAC=962  Registration; RID=10017   TG=102    ACCEPT
2019/07/02  17:10:09  Freq=773.956250  NAC=962  Group call; TG=102  RID=10017  Ch=771.20625  1s
2019/07/02  17:17:02  Freq=773.956250  NAC=962  Group call; TG=102  RID=10017  Ch=769.78125
2019/07/02  17:19:58  Freq=773.956250  NAC=962  Group call; TG=102  RID=10017  Ch=771.20625
2019/07/02  17:27:32  Freq=773.956250  NAC=962  Deregistration; RID=10017
2019/07/02  18:27:00  Freq=773.956250  NAC=962  Registration; RID=10017    ACCEPT
2019/07/02  18:27:03  Freq=773.956250  NAC=962  Affiliation; RID=10017   TG=102    ACCEPT
2019/07/02  18:27:05  Freq=773.956250  NAC=962  Group call; TG=102  RID=10017  Ch=771.20625  3s
2019/07/02  18:27:11  Freq=773.956250  NAC=962  Group call; TG=102  Ch=771.20625 Pri0

Unfortunately, it just sounded like techs kerchunking or something, no voice heard.


[edit] I think we overlooked the license data. There's a pending application on WQJY422, looks like it adds more channels to the Sisar Peak site. That application was submitted around the time site 3 went up.

 

[Giddyuptd]

By the time they or others get to 2020, APX Next will be out and LTE systems start being pushed onto many which their phase 2 will be obsolete with Motorolas way of thinking.

 

[kj6psg]

Looks like they were doing testing on the east county site 2. Immediately before the test, at 2019/07/02 20:57:30 UTC, RID 40006 registered to talkgroup 1, and deregistered 46 seconds later. DSD+ indicated control channel was lost at 21:02:26, and I briefly saw control channel on 771.50625 shortly after. Test pattern was sent on 769.53125, 769.78125, and 771.20625, in C4FM. Site 3 indicated neighbor site 2 as "FAILED, ISOLATED" with control channel 771.50625 during the test. At 21:30, test pattern stopped and control channel went back on-air at 773.95625. Site 3's neighbor list went back to normal, showing 773.52625 at 21:30:43.


IF I/Q recordings of test pattern

 

[kj6psg]

VCFD Engine 41 was requesting radio checks on the trunked system, with RID 10042.
TG 101: "Ventura, Engine 41, on the trunked channel."
TG 102: "Ventura, Engine 41, radio check on Command 1 Trunked?"

So we should expect IDs 1xxxx are from County Fire, and 2xxxx are law enforcement. I would also expect TG 101 to be fire dispatch, and TG 102 is Command 1.

 

[ChrisE_STB]

VCFD Engine 41 was requesting radio checks on the trunked system, with RID 10042.
TG 101: "Ventura, Engine 41, on the trunked channel."
TG 102: "Ventura, Engine 41, radio check on Command 1 Trunked?"

So we should expect IDs 1xxxx are from County Fire, and 2xxxx are law enforcement. I would also expect TG 101 to be fire dispatch, and TG 102 is Command 1.

Command 1 is "Dispatch"

 

[kj6psg]

Heard some more activity. Talkgroup 1 is Radio Techs channel, talkgroup 208 is Simi Valley Demonstration Channel. A mix of secure (DES-OFB) and clear voice, phase 1 and 2, was heard today on both of those TGs. Radio IDs were 40001, 40006, and 2008; all radio techs. Coverage along the 101 appears to be good. There was some tinkering with the simulcast system that could be seen via several neighbor list updates from the Simi site (switched between primary and secondary CCs at least 5 times). I currently can't check if South Mountain is transmitting the correct modulation now, but I should have an update on that by the end of the week. DSD+'s error rate on the simulcast is nearly 0% now.

 

[allend]

Sounds like if there is a mix of secure and non secure that all of Law Enforcement will be encrypted and they will leave City Services and Fire open. Best case scenario is that maybe LE Dispatch talkgroups will be open but don't hold your breath.

That's my hunch considering what the trends have been in SoCal for a number of years now.

 

[kj6psg]

I don't believe the stuff the radio techs are using themselves will influence the final system, aside from demonstrating that encryption is going to be used *somewhere* on the system. It's way too early to be coming to these conclusions; they haven't even built out the west county sites. Keep an eye on LA-RICS (in its respective thread, please) as their encryption decision will likely influence Ventura's.

 

[kj6psg]

Radio techs (unit IDs 40006 and 40009) playing around with audio quite a bit on TG 208. Voice intelligibility is much better now compared to the first time I heard activity. From those unit IDs, I've only ever heard radio checks and test counts. That activity was in phase 1 as monitored on Rocketdyne site.

South Mountain site is still transmitting C4FM, knocking out some of my reception over the last few days. CC decodes fine, VC has high error rate. That's all due to antenna placement and multipath causing variable signal strength ratios between the CQPSK sites and South Mountain. I've moved my monitoring back to the undistorted Rocketdyne as a result. Current system activity appears to be using the 'simulcast' based on input reception, but I would expect that to be due to receive voting.

 

[kj6psg]

Ventura PD is doing some coverage testing on TG 205 today, with activity in Phase 1. Coverage is solid (as I would expect it to be over Ventura city limits, except on the east side of Ventura Avenue). Audio is low (seems to be a trend with VPD) which causes some intelligibility issues, but there's no dropouts in the areas they're testing so far.

At this point I'd expect TG 205 to be Ventura Police and 208 to be Simi Valley Police; and TGs starting with 2 to be law enforcement while those starting with 1 are fire. There's also affiliations to TGs 201 and 207, but I haven't heard any voice activity on those yet.

 

[ChrisE_STB]

Ventura PD is doing some coverage testing on TG 205 today, with activity in Phase 1. Coverage is solid (as I would expect it to be over Ventura city limits, except on the east side of Ventura Avenue). Audio is low (seems to be a trend with VPD) which causes some intelligibility issues, but there's no dropouts in the areas they're testing so far.

At this point I'd expect TG 205 to be Ventura Police and 208 to be Simi Valley Police; and TGs starting with 2 to be law enforcement while those starting with 1 are fire. There's also affiliations to TGs 201 and 207, but I haven't heard any voice activity on those yet.

Thank you for your continued updates.

 

[iscanvnc2]

Don't have access to my scanner until 5:00 PM. Guess all testing is done by then or is it still going on? I'm monitoring site 102. Nothing.

 

[kj6psg]

I haven't heard anything on any talkgroup since after 12:15PM that day. The testers went inside CMH to test the indoor performance of the system and nothing got through. That VPD testing was only carried by the Ventura simulcast as no units were affiliated on that talkgroup at Rocketdyne.

 

[kj6psg]

PSAP roll call this morning had poor turnout: only Oxnard PD, Port Hueneme PD, Simi Valley PD, and CSUCI PD responded. Oxnard is indeed using unit ID 20000.
Aside from some radio checks on TG 208 yesterday, there's been no voice activity on the system since the 6th. I'll use the break in activity to post the current site status. $ indicates hexadecimal value, so hopefully there's no confusion.

WACN $BEE00, System ID $962
Band plans (all use 12.5 kHz bandwidth):
- #1 (lots of scanner software uses index 0 for first entry, so adjust if needed when entering): Base 851.00625, step 6.25 kHz
- #2: Base 762.00625, step 6.25 kHz
- #3: Base 851.0125, step 12.5 kHz, two TDMA slots
- #4: Base 762.00625, step 12.5 kHz, two TDMA slots
RFSS 1, Site 2 (WQXV556), modulation C4FM:
- Control channel 773.95625
- Secondary CC 771.50625
- Voice channels 769.78125, 771.20625 (only Phase 1 observed on system so far)
- BSI 769.53125
RFSS 1, Site 3 (WQYD673), modulation CQPSK:
- Control channel 770.79375
- Secondary CCs 770.34375, 770.78125
- Voice channels 770.09375, 770.33125 (all were seen in both Phase 1 and Phase 2)
- BSI 770.08125

Talkgroups, to the best of my understanding:
- 1 ($1), Radio Technicians
- 99 ($63), PSAP
- 101 ($65), Countywide Command (sometimes called Countywide Command 1)
- 102 ($66), VCFD Command 1
- 103 ($67), VCFD Chief-to-Chief
- 201 ($C9)
- 205 ($CD), Ventura Police
- 207 ($CF)
- 208 ($D0), Simi Valley Police

Radio IDs:
IDs in the 1xxxx range are fire department
IDs in the 2xxxx range are law enforcement
IDs in the 4xxxx range are radio technicians, along with ID 2008.
These IDs are seen only on the PSAP talkgroup 99 ($63), in Phase 1 only:
- 10000, County Fire PSAP
- 20000, Oxnard Police PSAP
- 20001, PSAP Radio Tech
- 20003, County Sheriff PSAP
- 20005, Port Hueneme Police PSAP
- 20006, Santa Paula Police PSAP
- 20007, Ventura Police PSAP
- 20008, Simi Valley Police PSAP
- 20009, CSUCI PD PSAP
- 20010, CHP Ventura PSAP
IDs 2008, 40001, 40006, 40008, and 40009 are associated to talkgroup 1 ($1). Phase 1 and 2 operation seen on this talkgroup, with some encryption.
In addition to PSAPs, ID 40007 is associated to talkgroup 99 ($63).
On talkgroups 101-103, a pretty decent number of radios with IDs in VCFD's 1xxxx range are seen. Many of those IDs are seen on all three talkgroups.
ID 40006 is the only ID seen on talkgroup 201 ($C9), with no voice activity seen.
IDs 40003 and 40005 are associated with talkgroup 205 ($CD) and identified as VPD. Both of the radios are portables. 40003 can operate in Phase 2, while 40005 appears to revert the talkgroup to Phase 1.
IDs 2008, 40006, 40008, and 40009 are associated with talkgroup 208 ($D0) with some encryption, and identified the channel name as Simi Valley Demonstration. Phase 1 and 2 operation seen on this talkgroup.
ID 2008 is the only radio ID seen using encryption (DES-OFB), but I believe other radio IDs in the 4xxxx range have the key(s) loaded and those in the 1xxxx range do not. Currently, encryption on that radio is operator-selectable.

The system is increasingly favoring Phase 2 operation, with exception to the PSAP talkgroup, which has always been Phase 1 only. The VCFD talkgroup range (101-103) has been in Phase 1, with exactly one Phase 2 call in the log on 103; I would expect those radios to upgrade to Phase 2 relatively soon.

 

[mkeguyver]

So are all the law enforcement agencies going digital? what will that mean?

 

[kj6psg]

So are all the law enforcement agencies going digital? what will that mean?

The transition won't be for at least another year or three, and VCFD is also joining (I'd expect them to arrive first). It means bye-bye simulcast distortion on county analog systems, better coverage in most areas, potentially miserable indoor coverage in Oxnard/Ventura, better interoperability between in-county and out-of-county agencies, actually being able to hear CHP should they use the new system, greater susceptibility to communications problems in the event of a site failure, encryption availability, an increase in SDS100 sales within the county, and a lot of "10-9?" for the first month or two. I would expect a more consistent scanning experience if LE stays clear for routine traffic.