SDS100/SDS200: SDS100 Firmware 1.03.01 Public Release

[SMBaugh2]

Ist thing I noticed with my SDS-100 was the amount of talk coming across a p-25 system that I use to hear very little. I have 3 p-25 systems I can listen which I can report I hear fine and better than I use too. I have to say with all the firmware upgrades and just reading about the NAC codes from folks in the forums has improve my listening. The analog channels seem to be about the same as other scanners. I'm using a RH77CA antenna and it seems to be fine. One thing I have notice is when I update sentinel it sometimes change the settings like NAC codes and it restricts my listening. But once I realize this and manually change my settings back it receives better once again. But don't let me mislead you it could very well be me not paying attention when I'm updating causing some of this. But like I've said I'm learning every day something new.

 

[scannerhead]

SDS100 Missing beginning of some P25 reply transmissions

Running the 1.03.01 firmware, I've noticed a symptom that is causing missing the first second or so of a quick reply. (It's occurring on two different Moto P25 phase 1 simulcast systems that I've checked.) At the end of a voice transmission I noticed the signal bars slowly drop off before switching back to the control channel, apparently waiting for the voice channel signal to drop. It's only about a .5 to 1 second delay but it's enough to cause you to miss a quick reply now occurring on a different voice freq/channel. When a transmission ends on the 436hp it snaps back to the control channel ready to follow to the next voice channel. I've missed the beginning of replies on the SDS100 that the 436hp heard just fine.

If P25 phase 1 uses an "end-tone," or something like that, the SDS100 is apparently not responding to it. Tried turning up the squelch to 5 and it reacts the same. Used site NAC, same result. Note that I am scanning just one system and site at a time. Holding on talk group, same result.

Unable to post a log file tonight but will tomorrow if needed. Can someone else confirm this behavior? It's likely happening on any p25 phase 1 or 2 system.


SYSTEM: https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=2508

SYSTEM: https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=2082

 

[AvidHiker]

Went back to beta 2.05b

New firmwear made it almost impossible to decode this system.
Which works fine in 2.05b

New Jersey Interoperability Communications System (NJICS)

https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=7021

Interesting, I have no experience with either beta, but the current official firmware has caused a few random issues with NJICS from within my local simulcast (I'm surrounded by 4 towers now, none of which are dramatically closer than the others). I've had a couple instances of deafness that were resolved by simply power cycling the scanner, and I've noticed a few instances of the SDS randomly deciding to start scanning control channels while I'm holding on my local site. Ordinarily, because the signal is plenty strong (-50 to -70), it has no problem staying locked onto the primary control channel (had me wondering if they've been using alternates for some reason).

When holding on the same site while well outside it's range (about 12 miles from the nearest tower), performance is as good or better than the last official firmware. My 436 is anywhere from completely deaf to maybe 40% at this distance (it actually seems to have gotten worse after the latest firmware update), while the SDS is probably 80% minimum (usually close to 100%). This is with squelch at 3 on the SDS, and 1 on the 436.

FWIW, I'm using W2SJW's NJ favorites list on both scanners, which you can download from his sig:
https://forums.radioreference.com/n...munication-system-nj-ics-157.html#post2949755

 

[N6ML]

Running the 1.03.01 firmware, I've noticed a symptom that is causing missing the first second or so of a quick reply. (It's occurring on two different Moto P25 phase 1 simulcast systems that I've checked.) At the end of a voice transmission I noticed the signal bars slowly drop off before switching back to the control channel, apparently waiting for the voice channel signal to drop. It's only about a .5 to 1 second delay but it's enough to cause you to miss a quick reply now occurring on a different voice freq/channel. When a transmission ends on the 436hp it snaps back to the control channel ready to follow to the next voice channel. I've missed the beginning of replies on the SDS100 that the 436hp heard just fine.

If P25 phase 1 uses an "end-tone," or something like that, the SDS100 is apparently not responding to it. Tried turning up the squelch to 5 and it reacts the same. Used site NAC, same result. Note that I am scanning just one system and site at a time. Holding on talk group, same result.

Unable to post a log file tonight but will tomorrow if needed. Can someone else confirm this behavior? It's likely happening on any p25 phase 1 or 2 system.

YES! I've been observing exactly the same thing, and was trying to gather more information before reporting it.

As I understand it (loosely), TDUs (in control data) on the voice channel indicate when the voice transmission has ended and the channel is released. It appears that the SDS firmware is not observing those, and is hanging on the voice channel until the RF signal drops out (observe the RSSI going < -100) before it switches back to the control channel. If a conversation moves to a different voice channel, part of it can be missed. I suspect that some systems are more aggressive about releasing voice channels than others.

 

[werinshades]

Running the 1.03.01 firmware, I've noticed a symptom that is causing missing the first second or so of a quick reply. (It's occurring on two different Moto P25 phase 1 simulcast systems that I've checked.) At the end of a voice transmission I noticed the signal bars slowly drop off before switching back to the control channel, apparently waiting for the voice channel signal to drop. It's only about a .5 to 1 second delay but it's enough to cause you to miss a quick reply now occurring on a different voice freq/channel. When a transmission ends on the 436hp it snaps back to the control channel ready to follow to the next voice channel. I've missed the beginning of replies on the SDS100 that the 436hp heard just fine.

If P25 phase 1 uses an "end-tone," or something like that, the SDS100 is apparently not responding to it. Tried turning up the squelch to 5 and it reacts the same. Used site NAC, same result. Note that I am scanning just one system and site at a time. Holding on talk group, same result.

Unable to post a log file tonight but will tomorrow if needed. Can someone else confirm this behavior? It's likely happening on any p25 phase 1 or 2 system.


SYSTEM: https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=2508

SYSTEM: https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=2082

YES! I've been observing exactly the same thing, and was trying to gather more information before reporting it.

As I understand it (loosely), TDUs (in control data) on the voice channel indicate when the voice transmission has ended and the channel is released. It appears that the SDS firmware is not observing those, and is hanging on the voice channel until the RF signal drops out (observe the RSSI going >100) before it switches back to the control channel. If a conversation moves to a different voice channel, part of it can be missed. I suspect that some systems are more aggressive about releasing voice channels than others.

Wereinshades: Regarding your post in the beta thread:

According to the logs, the scanner seems to scan following TGIDs almost perfectly in 1.02.05b.
On the other hand, it occasionally misses voice transmission in 1.02.03.

9002
9006
9007
9029
9098
9099

It seems to be behavior of ID Scan mode for above TGIDs, not ID Search.
The channel delay time may be 3 seconds.

If so, that is normal.
If not, it seems to be intentionally restricted by something.

I previously reported this in the 1.02.05b firmware thread. This is what I reported and UPMan's response. Please submit debug files so maybe the issue can be revisited...thanks.

Here's my original post...sound familiar?:

1. P25 systems holding on site with good signal.

Link to system: https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?siteId=10872

Issue: Not previously reported.

Noticed I was missing short replies. Held System, Trunk Detail to confirm. At times when either a dispatcher or mobile unit replies (usually short) and scanner switches to new frequency, entire reply is missed.

Example: "Unit 1 to dispatch" (frequency switches) no reply heard.."Unit 1 is 10-8".."Dispatch to Unit 1 10-4". It would appear the the short reply voice is not being processed quick enough despite the scanner follows the conversation to the proper frequency.


**This was noticed after the first beta firmware, but was trying to see if it was user issues or maybe I was just missing it. I reverted back to the 1.02.03 firmware and here were my results:

Most of today I was using 1.02.03 and short replies were being heard again. I decided to run a second debug file in Detail Trunk mode for comparison. The first thing that caught my attention was the RSSI value seemed to improve about 5-10 db's. I watched the frequencies carefully as the conversations ended to confirm what I was now hearing. Short replies (10-4's/ok etc.) were being followed as I suspected.

My debug files were submitted to Jason Houk via his google drive because they were too large to submit on the thread and he will forward them as he has done for me in the past...thanks Jason!

 

[Badboy536]

So what i have found is going from firmware 1.02.05b to the public release 1.03.01 had made my recieve deaf. Things that i could hear on 1.02.05b i could no longer hear or the signal was so low i could not understand what was being said anymore. So i put 1.02.05b back on and my recieve was back. I was receiving the signal's i was missing with 1.03.01. I think i will deal with the light issues on 1.02.05b then have my recieve Diminished on 1.03.01 .maybe on the next firmware update they can up the recieve Similar to 1.02.05b.

 

[jonwienke]

So what i have found is going from firmware 1.02.05b to the public release 1.03.01 had made my recieve deaf. Things that i could hear on 1.02.05b i could no longer hear or the signal was so low i could not understand what was being said anymore.

If you want the problem to be identified and fixed, put 1.03 back on your scanner, and record a debug log of the scanner having reception issues. Then post the log and a link to the system(s) you were having trouble receiving. What you've posted so far is too vague to find and fix the problem.

 

[werinshades]

1.02.03

I had too many receive issues, plus the power up issue this morning, and I have returned to the original firmware 1.02.03 which has still worked best for me. I don't know if the powering up issue has returned as the scanner has been on all day, but noticeable reception improvements immediately and set modulation back to NFM, which I tried with 1.03.01. The back light and 4 rows of Unit ID take a back seat to being able to hear both sides of conversations no matter if it's a short or long replies. I think I'll wait the next one out for awhile till I see if some of these issues are addressed in the notes. Maybe we can wait a couple weeks and get everything fixed. I don't know if tweaking the sub firmware will have any effect, but I'm willing to wait the next dance out.

 

[jfr454]

as ems170 stated in post#19, I have experienced issues scanning P25 conventional channels. Some missed comms but several with the beginning of the transmissions cut off. Acts like the scanner is still scanning and has to catch up but only a few channels in one bank. I have also heard a few that appear to end too quickly losing the last second. Both frequencies receive fine on my 396XT.

I have attached 2 debug files of a conventional bank with several analog and two P25 channels. (My local PD ch1 & 2)
the analog receieve fine but the digital are the problem ones. These are somewhat long but capture the problems.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1M3NMkMLFIJWBevm9yWjI2Kh7ges_9pwE

https://drive.google.com/open?id=14bXoppxlAox8vEXBSa4oeP7IftKvmWjF

 

[rbrtklamp2]

My system was very busy tonight and I heard numerous missed replies mostly short stuff like a quick 10-4 or other code in response to dispatch. I also experienced completely missed transmissions where it tries to tune to a frequency but hops back to the control channel before any audio can even be heard on the voice channel. And lastly tonight I noticed the busier the system got the more instances of digital distortion I was seeing. I would say I missed about 20% of the traffic on the system tonight due to the three problems I mentioned above. Also I have noticed while the voice quality has vastly improved with the firmware updates I am having alot of trouble with analog conventional comms I tried the ATT and IFX it didnt help with them. Side by side with my 3252p2 the p2 is picking up many conventional communications that the SDS is not. I have a debug log for the trunking issues I mentioned but I still have to make one for the analog conventional issues. UPMan thanks for your time and I hope this scanner will just keep getting better because when working properly the SDS100 is one mean radio .


Thanks Again,
Bob


Trunking issue debug log: https://mega.nz/#!uK400SpA!ppqxsQJfzQGhY6ZfoiNKXGBd8skwDBsEKRC79PMrMDM


System Link: https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=2324


Debug log was taken from tower 101 Dupage County.

 

[buddrousa]

For me with this FW release 700mhz P1 P2 range increased NXDN 450mhz range increased DMR 150mhz 450mhz increased.

 

[jonwienke]

never mind

 

[sibbley]

DMR and NXDN receive is a bit better again with the latest release. Both OFT 450MHz and 150MHz range. I was also able to get less noise by changing all modulations to FM instead of NFM. With each firmware release things are definitely getting better.

Again, I don't have much trouble at all with trunked 450MHz through 900MHz. Still just the OFT systems.

Still seeing some users I monitor with higher RSSI values (-100 to -110dbm). These should be lower as I can get a full signal bars with x36. Since switching to FM, the noise has come down on these systems.

Upman, would it help if I get you log files? I seem to be the only having this issue. I'm more than happy to sit back and wait for firmware since things seem to get better each new release.

BTW, this is still all using a duck antenna. Outdoor antenna produces better RSSI values and less noise. But, the SDS is a portable, I'd like it to be better with a duck.

That said, engineering is doing a fantastic job in their efforts to nail down the firmware issues. Thanks to all.

 

[MiTreasureHunter]

How do I flash the previous "Official" firmware back onto the SDS100 and where do I find the archived older firmware versions?

I am so disgusted with this latest version. It has rendered my scanner nearly unusable!! I'm trying to moniter the MPSCS P25 system here in Michigan and this new firmware COMPLETELY screwed up something my control channels. I have a tower literally 1/4 mile away that my scanners always locks on. Well after this latest firmware update my scanner will not work unless I have ALL the MPSCS tower sites in memory and it randomly stops on towers that are over a hundred miles away (impossible) but receives nothing at all from my local tower.

Not interested in running any tests (debug), I just need the info I asked for so I can get this scanner operational again ASAP.

I tripled checked everything with my programming and it is all correct and my GRE PSR-600 is working perfect as usual off my local tower. My scanner is definitely messed up from this latest firmware!

 

[werinshades]

How do I flash the previous "Official" firmware back onto the SDS100 and where do I find the archived older firmware versions?

I am so disgusted with this latest version. It has rendered my scanner nearly unusable!! I'm trying to moniter the MPSCS P25 system here in Michigan and this new firmware COMPLETELY screwed up something my control channels. I have a tower literally 1/4 mile away that my scanners always locks on. Well after this latest firmware update my scanner will not work unless I have ALL the MPSCS tower sites in memory and it randomly stops on towers that are over a hundred miles away (impossible) but receives nothing at all from my local tower.

Not interested in running any tests (debug), I just need the info I asked for so I can get this scanner operational again ASAP.

I tripled checked everything with my programming and it is all correct and my GRE PSR-600 is working perfect as usual off my local tower. My scanner is definitely messed up from this latest firmware!

I had some degradation issues as well with Starcom, but not as bad as you've described. I reverted back to 1.02.03 which has been working great until I see notes describing issues worked on. But...here you go:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SDS100/files/Firmware/

 

[AvidHiker]

I'm still getting loosey-goosey behavior on my local control channel as well. When first powered up, it keeps randomly scanning the alternates very slowly (with squelch at 3), but eventually settles down on the primary with an RSSI of -70. Once settled, so far, it seems to stay put. I'll try to get a log next time. (NJICS, Union County simulcast)

 

[jonwienke]

How do I flash the previous "Official" firmware back onto the SDS100 and where do I find the archived older firmware versions?

What you describe is not a firmware issue, it's a programming issue. If you're receiving traffic from distant sites but not the closest site, the scanner itself is fine, and reverting to an older firmware will NOT help. You need to fix your programming and/or scanner settings.

Make sure your location is set correctly. If you're in Midland and the scanner thinks it is in Zilwaukee, it's not going to scan what you want it to scan. The best way is to enter your GPS coordinates using Menu \ Set Your Location \ Set Manual Location. The easiest way get your coordinates is to set the scanner to use decimal degrees (Menu \ Set Your Location \ Set Up GPS \ Location Format \ DDD.dddddd), then open up Google Maps. The GPS coordinates are in the URL just after the @ symbol.

Set Range to 5 miles or less. (Menu \ Set Your Location \ Set Range)

To eliminate programming issues, disable all of your favorite lists (Menu \ Set Scan Selection \ Set All Lists Off), then enable the full database (Menu \ Set Scan Selection \ Select Lists to Monitor \ Full Database : ON). When you see MPSCS being scanned, press the System soft key to hold on MPSCS. You should see your local site among those being scanned and hear local traffic.

Turn on all service types.

 

[phask]

Although a slim chance, but there may be a site with a NAC error, depending on database date, if info. has been changed, etc.


Since you "tried everything" have you set the site's CC for NAC search? Or used analyze to see if you can receive the site and verify NAC?

 

[MiTreasureHunter]

What you describe is not a firmware issue, it's a programming issue. If you're receiving traffic from distant sites but not the closest site, the scanner itself is fine, and reverting to an older firmware will NOT help. You need to fix your programming and/or scanner settings.

Make sure your location is set correctly. If you're in Midland and the scanner thinks it is in Zilwaukee, it's not going to scan what you want it to scan. The best way is to enter your GPS coordinates using Menu \ Set Your Location \ Set Manual Location. The easiest way get your coordinates is to set the scanner to use decimal degrees (Menu \ Set Your Location \ Set Up GPS \ Location Format \ DDD.dddddd), then open up Google Maps. The GPS coordinates are in the URL just after the @ symbol.

Set Range to 5 miles or less. (Menu \ Set Your Location \ Set Range)

To eliminate programming issues, disable all of your favorite lists (Menu \ Set Scan Selection \ Set All Lists Off), then enable the full database (Menu \ Set Scan Selection \ Select Lists to Monitor \ Full Database : ON). When you see MPSCS being scanned, press the System soft key to hold on MPSCS. You should see your local site among those being scanned and hear local traffic.

Turn on all service types.

Already did all those things. Its not the settings or programming, the scanner worked fine until firmware update. No matter what is put manually for GPS it does not see my local tower anymore. All frequencies are correct.

Even reset everything, just updated database in scanner with all Service Typed checked...nothing.

 

[mule1075]

Already did all those things. Its not the settings or programming, the scanner worked fine until firmware update. No matter what is put manually for GPS it does not see my local tower anymore. All frequencies are correct.

Even reset everything, just updated database in scanner with all Service Typed checked...nothing.

Well why not do a debug file even though you said you don't want to? You as I are an early adopter so why not help out a bit? And before any haters say anything we as early adopters knew potentially problems would be at hand and we knew that. I for one was one of the 1st to ***** about the price and saying I was not going to get one but I did and am enjoying it.